Honestly yeah Hunters need a buff for PvE everyone can cry about hunters in PvP as much as they want which I think is stupid too. Hunters are good in pvp sure, but it's not like the other classes are terrible though? Honestly it's more about gunplay when it comes down to it as well. I do equally as good on my Titan in pvp. Anyways hunters are literally excluded from lfg post often now. I get on Xbox and here and see a lot of fireteams say "no hunters, only Titans and warlocks" and that's just ridiculous. I got kicked from a raid because of it, and if ANY one here thinks the same you're dogshit at the game. I seriously hate elitist like that I've dealt with it enough now.

Hunter does need a buff but what it really needs is next subclass if they add one not to be a roaming super. Bungie has a pvp emphasis on hunter and broke what isn’t. Think about it. Golden gun? Roaming super for distance with nighthawk being only method to make it super pve viable. Tether? Why bother due to things like divinity and seasonal debuffs that don’t stack with it. Arc? Roaming super = trash tier boss dps in a world where burst damage matters more than anything. Stasis? Crowd control and at best a modified roaming super. I play all 3 characters and hunter is most painful to use right now because it’s supers are absolute trash tier outside of pvp.

The only reason it seems lackluster is because of cuirass of the falling star. Negligible difference in damage output for significantly easier usage and an AOE. Bring that down 25% or so and balance has been restored. Nighthawk can and will kill pretty much any non boss with a critical hit in one shot. Grandmaster champions can hold on if they have full health I think.

If they gave tether a damage reduction for the character similar to well and bubble then hunters could be viable in raids again.

As a hunter main myself, no. You forget it regens a quarter of super on kills, adds combustion (funnily enough making bottom tree super better at add clear) and it can be paired with practice makes perfect which gives us a hella fast cooldown. Plus it’s always kinda been meta so it would be nice to have something for another class to match with thundercrash. Maybe an exotic supercharged silence and squall into a massive scythe and outputs ridiculous damage and freeze. Nevertheless, Celestial is still the best dps exotic imo.

Celestial nighthawk is a high risk mediocre reward right now. You have ONE SHOT, you NEED to hit a crit for it to be high damage. At this moment literally everyone else I know uses blade barrage over golden gun in VOG because you get it back quicker and it does more damage overall when the damage phase ends. And this is hilarious because I always use tether, it's the one super I consistently use with orpheus rigs... Tether at this moment isn't great for boss damaging because the tether counters the breach and clear mod. Nobody wants it, and thats a shame as I almost always generate orbs for everyone.

1. Hunter mains have more options than you say they do. For Atheon, shards + blade barrage is the meta. For most other bosses, it's slug shottie and anarchy with no super needed at all. Not talking about that to make CN sound worse than it is only hurts your point. 2. Celestial nighthawk hunters are still the best dps class for both Garden of Salvation bosses because the damage phases are so short. Having that burst damage and then extra gun damage easily out paces anything warlocks or titans can do because both of those classes have very long supers. If hunters don't want to use GG, tether provides a debuff long enough to 2 phase for most fireteams. 3. In GMs, stasis hunters are by far the best hunter class with invis coming in second. No matter much CN gets buffed, they will never be better than invis or stasis hunters in GMs. 4. Warlock chaos reach takes FOREVER to use, and you're not taking into account cast times. I don't know if it's intentional to cherry pick points and drive a narrative, but a 2 second cast+use super shouldn't do as much damage as one that takes like 10 seconds to cast. 5. Celestial Nighthawk is a world drop and stupid easy to get. Falling Star is only available by soloing master lost sectors. If a cheap, easy world exotic gets buffed to deal that kind of damage, it cheapens the work titan mains (and even those of us who aren't titan mains who still wanted one) did to get it. It's vastly harder to get a falling star than it is to wait and buy a CN from Xur, which he sells 12 times a year. 6. Moving to a subjective point, CN kinda already had its day in the sun and it's kinda time to move on. Back in the day, hunter mains could kill calus and eow raid boss in under 20 seconds with CN and a tether pumping orbs. It was clutch in early Riven cheese strats, great for one phasing Galran in Crown of Sorrows, and it's still the best DPS for Garden bosses (short cast times let you also use your heavy or izanagis or whatever you use). It was, without question, the top and [b][i]only[/i][/b] S-tier must have DPS exotic in the game for the first three years of Destiny 2. Let something else be good for once. 7. I very much believe you're exaggerating how much hunters are struggling. Of the 3 people to get fatebreaker in my clan this week, 2 of them are hunter mains. Neither used CN once in Master VoG builds and both did just fine. Hunters are in a good spot in terms of both PvP and PvE and your complaining takes a lot of things (like cast times) out of context and it honestly sounds like your mad that Titans and Warlocks are slowly becoming better and more fun to play. Why do other classes getting nice things make you mad? 8. Don't discount the relevance and power of other Hunter exotics. CN is an ancient exotic. There are many new ones that makes hunters absolutely bonkers good in PvE (and absurdly broken in PvP). Pretending those exotics don't exist to bemoan the power creep of a single, albeit iconic, exotic feels like narrative driving, which people don't like. Don't be shocked if you get a ton of people disagreeing with you.

Bungo: We heard you loud clear and therefore we will tune down Thundercrash. To allow Celestial Nighthawk some room to compete with other supers. This will be their response to this. I guarantee it...

I think it's fine. Instant, super safe, nice damage and yah get a 33% refund on kill. Hunters have tether and invis not to mention pretty strong stasis in pve. People on lfgs probably want Titan and Warlock fpr ease of use and that's fine. We're pretty broken in Pvp. We Can't have it all my friend.

Star eater scales needs a rework in its orb. Shouldn’t require 8 orbs for a better super

A few comments as a response: 1. Hunters were the DPS kings for most activities over the first 3 years of D2 (and all 3 years of D1). While there were certain notable exceptions where Chaos Reach was better, Celestial was certainly the best DPS option for the vast majority of the game. I think it is fine to have a rotating meta for DPS supers over the lifespan of the game, especially given that Cuirass has only been around for 2 seasons now. 2. The precision multiplier is absolutely worth considering when comparing damage numbers. While certain bosses do not have these multipliers, many do, which is why you still see Celestial used in most Raid boss fights. 3. Golden Gun can be done at a safe distance, and while you try to dismiss that, it is actually very important. In most challenging endgame content, you are using cover to stay alive, and Thundercrashing a boss or Champion is a riskier move. Higher risk, higher reward. Even if you think the risk is low for Thundercrash, it is by definition higher than the risk of using Golden Gun from a distance. Not only this, but keep in mind that certain bosses can only really be damaged from a distance (ie Sanctified Mind). 4. You discuss the general utility of Chaos Reach, which it absolutely has, but you aren't acknowledging the utility of Golden Gun. Practice Makes Perfect allows for quicker super generation and Knock 'Em Down gives stability and handling on precision kills, which synergizes well with Practice Makes Perfect. Finally, if you want to use Celestial for Major or Champion add clear, you get a third of your super back if you kill the enemy you shoot. 5. If you keep seeing posts that say "no Hunters", make your own post. People always want players that have meta loadouts, and Hunters are currently not the meta. As a Titan main, I've constantly found myself using other characters over the years whenever they were meta. Year 1 of the game, I ended up using Hunter a ton because they were the best for DPS, add clear, and support (Celestial, Raiden Flux, Orpheus Rig). Then in Year 2, I played mostly Warlock because of Well. Finally in Year 3, I could play my Titan more with the re-introduction of Weapons of Light bubble. This isn't to say that you can't play what you want to play, just don't be surprised if people want you to use the meta.

I think the trade-offs are pretty fair. To pop and use a nighthawk takes 1 or 2 seconds. You mentioned the ingress with cuirass but not the egress. In most damage phases it takes about 5 or 6 seconds to crash the boss and then run back to safety, maybe longer. Chaos tends to hang you in the air and make you a target, which isn't so much of an issue in normal play but can definitely go awry in the master raid or GMs. The main benefit of nighthawk is its speed and safety. Perhaps a new exotic is in order, for tether. You charge up one super powered arrow and release it at the target, takes 4 or 5 seconds and deals damage befitting of the extra cast time.

Agreed. Its a high-risk super (you get one shot), so its damage should be a high-reward.