Not to mention the end of d1. It was awfull man.

It’s gone too far. No special on spawn does not equal D2Y1. At all. Complete overreaction.

Homie. We all thought so back in d1. "It wouldn't be that bad. It means less aping" Yes I wasn't getting aped anymore. Instead it was just sitting on zone with no land beyond, wormwood and skorri farm. Do you know how much the game was slowed down? Rounds that would normally take a minute would take more than twice as long. It was literally a staring contest till one got their super "We want to Buff primary weapon usage" They accomplished that...no land beyond. We switched to a sniper rifle with primary ammo. Same shit, different ammo type. One problem as well Wormwood killed faster than any primary at mid range. The problem just shifted again. You really wish to go back to the situations I mentioned above. Because that will happen. After one time I am sure of it. Removing special ammo on spawn will make people either camp for special or just farm supers. With trials and comp with the risk/reward I would wait for my super. Its Easy, I can have it in 2 rounds with some kills and 3 if I wait it out and win regardless.

Nothing you just described is fated to happen without special on spawn. The best idea I’ve heard is let special drop after getting a primary or ability kill or two. Then use special. Then rinse and repeat. There’d still be plenty of special ohk plays but more room and value for having a good primary weapon. I remember people camping on the special ammo crates. People farm heavy on the timer now too. IDK - like, I personally think a mix of Doom Eternal style ammo drop cycling plus a box on timer or two just to get the mix right wouldn’t be terrible as long as there’s enough primary ammo. I don’t agree that a two minute stomp is better than actual gunfights but everyone has their own opinion. Personally it would be more fun to play a 5 minute match and get worthwhile rewards than a mercy and blues, but that’s a whole different discussion.

Mate you must consider all game modes. Even trials and comp as much as it pains me to say it. Because you said we have a lot of OHK. So shifting it to abilities now is also what happened in rise of iron. Tell me? Is it less frustrating to get throwing knived every round or getting sticky naded in an empowering rift? Dunno what makes you not frustrated. They should just make Dexterity perks go to the boots and make a cap on scavenger mods. Limits the special ammo usage, only one scavenger gives 2 shots. That is plenty.

You’d still be swimming in special ammo chaining OHKs. Low skill scrubs like me who whiff on their special would see the party stop but demi gods like you could still play entire matches without running out of special ammo. You’re just asking for slower draw time and two rounds in the chamber to get the dominoes falling. I doubt that will create enough space for primary gunfights to matter more. I also don’t get how loading in without special entails more OHK ability spam. Those are on timers dude.

You call me a demi God yet my stats and 0 flawless trials runs imply otherwise. So shifting special into OHK abilities. Where did I see that before? Oh yeah rise of iron and the game didn't even get any better because even after that our grenades and abilities got nerfed. So again we already went through the cycle of what you want, you have seen the result. Why try it again? Nobody liked it, the meta became more ability spam heavy which is what bungie is trying to avoid now with d2. What do you propose that hasn't been tried and failed already. Because you can deny all you want but the removal of special didn't magically make Primary gunplay more prevalent.

Where are all the OHK abilities now? We’re not playing ROI anymore. Sticky nades have been nerfed for years. Throwing knife doesn’t have the insane tracking it used to have. Really you’ve got Ashen Wake Titans if they can get the fastballs going and Contraverse Hold for Warlocks as the only realistic and consistent OHK abilities. And we’ve been living with this anyway. Nothing changes. You’re overreacting. Quit pretending that if special doesn’t load on spawn Warlocks are suddenly going to start self rezzing and spitting OHK fusions. I understand you have PTSD from being stuck and blasted during ROI. But come on. Seriously.

Heart of inmost light You keep saying I am overreacting yet you want it to go back to vanilla d2 and nobody liked it.

Heart of Inmost Light (which is awesome) does not meaningfully create one hit ability kills, especially in PvP. It’s best use in PvP is zone denial and control with pulse or lightning grenades. You literally see nobody maining inmost light in PvP. And no - no reasonable reading of this thread = D2Y1. You can’t get D2Y1 without a ton of other adjustments to the game which have nothing to do without spawning with special and which had a bigger impact than starting the game without special: Shotguns and fusions = heavy weapons Revert “go fast” update No random rolls We’re way past all that. Spawning without special does not equal no special. You can cry D2Y1 all you want.

Yes it does. Want me to point you to d1 rise of iron or do you want me to keep pointing out the same issues? I mean i have all day mate. I don't mind, but it seems you are probably in a mood of done getting aped. I am too but removing special doesn't work and how many people have to say that to you. Because if one party has special. How will they fight it with a primary? Equip last word to counter shotguns? Oh wait, then you force a primary down someone's throat. Wanna know why power was so good? Because only one party has it. Its not as potent as heavy. Oh hell no but it definitely makes an impact with having it and not having it

You keep talking about ROI as if it were a bad thing. At least people actually played crucible then.

You are a comedian. You will come far in your acts I see. Nobody liked it except you. Just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else like. You are a pve player i see..not everything is about you

It’s hilarious that you’re fixated on this and won’t let it go when PvP is an abandoned dumpster fire. It’s also hilarious how personal this is for you. You’ll live with whatever Bungie serves up. They’ve already said they’re looking at special ammo. I’m sure they’re reading this thread in detail and taking notes about how to ruin your day. Small dogs are threatened by little things and don’t stop barking. Here you are running your mouth off at the fence still overreacting -

Mate, unless you know how something is going to go To counter your argument People will main heart of inmost light if you nerf special, you shoot dregs so you probably don't know anything competitive other than that sword level dreg To counter your anti special argument. Get good and learn how to counter. I am a sniper and yes special is easy to use but here is the kicker. YOU HAVE IT AS WELL So no, I think your argument is entirely based on you not being able to position yourself well enough to counter a shotgun. Get good or accept you can't win everything I really hope that the last person they will listen to is you. And if it happens. What do I get when I am right and they do remove special and it does become a dumpster fire again.. will I get a "You are right?" Or are you going to cling to nerfing heart of inmost light

You’re projecting and making way too many assumptions. Who says I’m salty about being shotgunned? Where did that come from? I play with a shotgun or fusion or GL. It came from you having an imaginary argument in your own head about why I think loading in with special might be too much. So far the most thoughtful against rezzing without special are: 1. Team wipes could be made worse when the low skill team can’t fight back against the better team who has kept special 2. Bad map design and poor spawns could make spawn trapping worse by limiting respawned players ability to fight out of spawn But you haven’t bern able to articulate any of this - you’re stuck on “BuT iTs riSe oF IRon aLL oVer” and “HeArt of InMosT lIgHt mmmmeta” in response to the idea that you should get a primary kill or two before special drops. You’ve been told why we’re not going to have Rise of Iron again. You’ve also been told that if people want to hammer strike or shoulder charge on Titans - they can already do this with Inmost Light. Inmost Light builds are good but not game breaking. Nothing changes except maybe a little more space for primary weapons. Grab a brown paper bag and breathe into it a few times. When you settle down let me know.

Homie, I am not kidding, you gave the answer everyone is giving you. Do you want an echo chamber? Go on twitter Because honestly you couldn't say it yourself and now that you have answered it yourself why it's bloody -blam!- to not spawn with special and make it a pickup is because unlike halo where shotguns are special, its a pickup however in halo you can fight back with just Primary guns kill because you don't have abilities and such. Maybe grenades but they are limited. And I was right A person who sees a sword level dreg as a challenge isn't the right person to ask for pvp improvements. All they really have to do to make it more fun for you "The casual joe" is - better loot and endgame rewards because why the -blam!- would I play pvp if all i am getting is one ascendant shard I mean why would that entice people to play that side of the game mode - more weapons and yes. I don't mean a new thing like frozen orbit or handcannon or sidearm. I mean an entire arsenal to chase. Last time we got that was in forsaken 3 years ago - a hybrid of skill based mm and connection based mm, you can't tell me it can't be done because they did it in d1 - the "Renewed focus" actually being more than just the introduction of trials and making it more terrible than D1. Almost everyone enjoyed the D1 version due to the amount of loot you got for not going flawless. And the 1 time flawless lockout. If you say you deserve it then do it again next week and don't complain about the recovs and cheating. Cheating is bad sure but you keep shooting yourself in the foot by claiming its "FoR tHe HaRdCoRe" where has that brought you? Oh yeah the state of trials now - the 600+ days of no new map. You can say it isn't about us but you, my dear pve player, complains when you don't even get a new repetitive way to play and get a legendary. These are my points for pvp and a response to you. You want special to be removed so adamantly yet you will complain when the special is getting picked up and dominated by the more skilled and want it nerfed entirely. There is no winning with you guys