Nice Name 👍

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/russian2urdeath/video/76633387 Kinda even at 4K comp

Good game play 👍 The point?

A few of those kills there were 100% easy mode and basically uncounterable. Fusions are extremely potent, to the point that they are banned in most scrims. The problem is that with current ammo economy you can just about use a special weapon as a primary, and out to 40m or so no primary can compete with a good errentil. You can flinch a sniper, you can out range a shotgun. But my but an errentil? Nah. Especially one with back up plan... My back up plan roll can reach out to 43m for an Ohk, DARCI confirmed .. if I miss a bolt I can almost always get another burst out or a primary shot before a primary can kill me 1v1. I take 20+m shots while flying through the air from cover to cover CONFIDENTLY... It’s absurd, and all though at very high levels of play, a true instant kill special is a better choice, the insane ease of use that fusions have makes their potency just a bit much... Sure a great player is more dangerous with NF +dust rock, but errentil elevates otherwise mediocre players to levels they just couldn’t reach any other way

But that game play showed everything working as intended. It didnt show no mapping of players. Im not saying it cant reach out and touch someone but ur a competant player and im sure u play others like you. The op stated a very specific number. My response was valid because he clearly went into a private match and had someone stand still while he figured the distance. My point was THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS IN REALITY. Nobody just stands there. Everyones running and jumping and all the other bullshit.

Well, any good fusion user pre-charges the thing as they peak a corner. Depending on the situation, the victim of that voop may not be able to hear the audio queue from that far away. Once it goes off, it's over. Travel time seems to he fairly fast. Best counter seems to be a perfectly timed hop, but that requires hearing the audio queue or seeing the user. Also, sometimes jumping doesn't work. The bolts are really sticky and you only need a few to connect for a kill.

If you are gonna give credit to a great fusion user by precharging for your example etc. (best case), you should give credit to the opponent countering it as well. Meaning you can't pair up a great fusion user with a "victim" that is blind, deaf, mute, using a broken controller, playing on McDonald's WiFi for your example. Any gun could kill that "victim". Right? Best case against best case. You yourself mentioned that a well timed jump could evade said "op" weaponry. That is just one example of several that could counter the guardian's attack. And now the Guardian can get waxed before he can charge up another shot; your reward from his bad high risk.

I never said it was "op." I also said "depending on the situation." That could include a really good player: 1. That is taking damage from another player and is in the middle of avoiding them. 2. whose audio queues are flooded by others 3. who doesn't have a headset so he can't hear it well from 27 meters 4. etc. "Best case against best case" isn't the Crucible and it isn't a realistic assumption for any kind of analysis. "Best case is a good player will be able to run away, so supers should have an incredibly long duration and be unkillable." "Best case is a good player will be able to adapt, so let's give wepaons a 27 meter kill radius and then let them have a perk that diminishes the one major drawback of charge time." "Best case is a good player will be able to counter it with a sniper, so let's make scouts have the fastest TTK in the game." "Best case is this valve on this 2500 psi gas line will never fail, so we shouldn't take that in to consideration when determining if this facility is safe." Might be the most flawed logic I've ever seen. In the real world, people die from that logic. In PvP games, the environment becomes extremely one-sided one frustrating. Enough said.

You immediately put your "victim" at a disadvantage in your deaf example. In no way can you limit that to only your erentil scenario. That disadvantage works with about every gun and/or ability. You are putting a finger on the scale, making the encounter lopsided in efforts to justify your view. Enough said.

And you ignored 90% of my last message in order to justify your statement. The entire point of my last message was saying that not everyone is going to be at an advantage in a fight. Every engagement you come across in the Crucible is not a 1v1. In fact, most aren't. So to out both ends of the engagement on equal footing is not realistic at all. Not even close. What do you want? The best hand cannon user against the best Erentil user? Great let's think about that. It doesn't model the current state of the Crucible whatsoever in any way, shape, or form because guess what? Most players aren't best in either of those categories. Or do you want two players in a strait up 1v1? Assuming they're both firing at the exact same time from 27 meters away, the fight must end in less than 0.9 seconds, otherwise the fusion goes off and one dies. At that range, most pulses won't get the job done fast enough and it doesn't allow for a lot of vertical movement, so it'll either end in a trade or the fusion will win. The pulse user could go behind cover, unless the Erentil has backup plan and is good with a fusion, resulting in a near instant fusion win. Hand cannons are good for vertical maneuvering in the case of a normal (no backup plan) Erentil. This might allow someone to dodge it, but the Erentil user could easy adjust for the movement or the bolts could still deal damage, as they are quite sticky. The hand cannon user could also just see the fusion and ditch, at which point the fusion user just waits for the same scenario and it starts over. The other problem with dodging based on visual and audio queues is latency. When something charges in about 0.9 seconds, latency makes a significant damage. Your average player will have a hard time timing the dodge from an average fusion user. There. Now under those assumptions in those scenarios, winning should be about 50:50, right? Maybe even screwed more towards the hand cannon or pulse user. Both parties have plenty of options. So, let's take a look at the data. Erentil has more mills than any energy shotgun, Not Forgotten, Trust, and any other energy weapon that isn't Recluse, Luna's, or Beloved. Erentil also has more kills than every primary except for TLW and Bygones. It's about tied with Austringer. Keep in mind Erentil has an ammo handicap and it's still competing with these weapons. It's fairly close to Dust Rock in terms of kills. (Console data). You should also look at the video and the comment above. He's an above average player who straight up says a moving target isn't an issue until 30+ meters. That right there makes hand cannons have a hard time competing on console. Do those results above line up with those scenarios I mentioned? No. Not at all. Why? Because "best against best" is not, and never has been, realistic. Ever. And to "justify my view?" Did I ever say the gun was OP? No. Did I ever ask for a nerf? No. Did I scream and complain about getting mapped? No. I just pointed out something that may be an issue now or in the future and left it at that. You're the one that went and made a bunch of ill founded assumptions, and I can't really say I'm interested in entertaining them further.

Where are you getting those stats, they're pulling straight API and it shows Erentil holds 6.62% of kills. It's below five primary weapons, and only above one energy weapon( two primaries as well ). The percent of shotgun kills is still way higher, and in some modes more then both fusion rifles and snipers combined.

I did quickplay for my examples. Yes shotgun kills are the highest special, but you have to realise that that number is incredibly skewed because of Dust Rock Blues. DRB is the only shotgun in the top five for kinetic, and there isn't a single shotgun in the top 5 for energy. For pulse rifles being so high, only one pulse is shown in top 5: Bygones. Hand cannons are all TLW, Luna's and Trust (NF isn't even on the list.), and yet hand cannons are at the very top. The data from guardian.gg is misleading because it lumps everything together. Last season, it showed hand cannons having more than 50% of all kills in every game mode, but in reality virtually every hand cannon kill came from NF/Luna's. It lumps it together. When you break it down by weapon by looking at the top 5 in the energy list or other data (other data is available in a few places, but it may be unreliable), Erentil has more kills than any energy shotgun, NF, any energy pulse, and Trust. (When I said it was about tied with Austringer, that's a little misleading. I meant it's percentage of energy kills is about equal with Austringer's percentage of primary kills. Doesn't really mean much, except that Austringer is behind DRB and Erentil has more kills than any elemental shotgun. Just shows that DRB is still skewing data.)

Hmm, there really isn't a way to get solid stats now that I tried looking deeper. Destinytracker.com doesn't exactly match guardian.gg , I'm also thinking more in terms of special weapons and not the slot they're in. Erentil stands out because its in the high impact archetype, and is easier to get compared to Wizened Rebuke. Jötunn is also part of this, but imo it suffers from the weaknesses of fusions the most and its tracking is more of a hindrance. You'd have to get a very good roll for Main Ingredient and Epicurean to even be viable. While aggressive and precision frame shotguns are more viable then both, of course some rolls are favored but not as much compared to fusions.