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5/3/2019 8:23:52 PM
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The problem is the TTK being better than every primary. Because of that they were used by everyone who has it. Also the ease of use factored in on console.
If a gun is [i]too effective[/i] against others, they will eventually get nerfed
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*laughs in recluse* You think Lunas made you mad? Prepare yourself. I've already seen a ton of them and they kill as quick as lunas without master of arms. With it lightning fast.
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You know recluse is just a normal SMG with a much better rampage perk? Without it it is just a normal SMG. It can easily be shutdown by a shotgun. I love the gun. In fact, it is one of my favorite guns in both PvP and PvE right now. That gun isn't OP but it is really good.
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First False It has the lowest ttk out of any 900rpm smg. Second It's not OP but wait until everyone actually realizes its ttk with master of arms being as low as under .5
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*Ahem* [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tynH9KZDv5p69m2fIMzk72yxDt1dDbn6yP4hJJvyhbU/edit#gid=692818429[/url] No it doesn't (among the other lightweight SMGs) The TTK only changes with Master of Arms.
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Well I guess I was wrong lol. A .47 is awfully low for all body shots though. You have to agree on that. That's one of the fastest ttks in the game, the fastest if you dont count 1 shot kill weapons. I dont want nerds but I am almost betting it will happen. I saw someone today with over 5k kills with recluse in Quickplay today lol. Almost everygame I played had a recluse. I dont blame people at all. Nor does it bother me I'm just saying I see it coming
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Edited by SirHeadPoppington: 5/8/2019 7:45:37 AMRecluse requires some setup for that TTK though. Luna's just requires two headshots which you're always going for anyway.
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So are you not going for kills anyway haha. I mean recluse requires a kill so are you jot going for kills then? Dont get me wrong recluse doesnt need a nerf and something had to be done in the sandbox about lunas/NF. Pricing mag howl gets you a small window in which you can 2 tap kill a guy but it requires 2 headshots first and departs on miss or kill. The "your going for headshots anyway" well yeah duh lol. Your going for kills to proc a kill perk.
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You're going for kills anyway but you're not always trying to chain kills quickly. Even when you are the opportunity doesn't always present itself, it's a situational perk unlike magnificent howl which can work in pretty much any situation.
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Eh I think people get too stuck on mag howl to be honest. I dont think that perk needed a nerf. The 150 change is good though. I mean I have Lunas and I dont use it that often. I like my Orchid a bunch. I like my bows. I like my sidearms. I know it's a good gun and all but meh. Recluse hopefully will not get a nerf but we will see.
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I don't know if it is a mistake in the spreadsheet or what. If it is the case, I feel like the 0.47 should only be possible with all headshots AKA the optimal TTK. I don't really think the gun needs a nerf though.
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Oh God no no more nerfs lol. No that ttk with master of arms is the same headshot or body shot. However the perk last 5 sec I think? After a kill this thing tears through everything. No headshots needed
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[quote]The problem is the TTK being better than every primary. Because of that they were used by everyone who has it. Also the ease of use factored in on console. If a gun is [i]too effective[/i] against others, they will eventually get nerfed[/quote] The problem isn’t just ttk. It’s Map size too. This is why the meta isn’t going to change all that much after the pinnacle nerf. If Bungie were to put bigger maps into the rotation you’ll naturally see less CQB weapons and more longer ranged weapons.
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So what about the other handcannons, smgs, sidearms, and auto rifles that can't compete with them?
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[quote]So what about the other handcannons, smgs, sidearms, and auto rifles that can't compete with them?[/quote] Truth is with different Archetypes,perks and ranges and range falloff nothing in Destiny will [b]never[/b] be truly balanced. Hell the class differences alone prevent such a feat. The hunter class has been Nerfed,buffed and Nerfed how many times since the inception of this game and it is still the most used and has the highest overall K/d mainly because of its ease of use. If destiny were to take off bloom and adjusted recoil on HC they absolutely rule the crucible. Bungie could adjust other ttk’s to all of those weapons you mentioned and we would without a doubt still find and Abuse the best option for that Sandbox. It’s never ending. Now I’m not saying they couldn’t get closer but i just don’t believe it possible without everyone running the same exact class/subclass/weapons in the crucible. A Set setup if you will. But doing that has its drawbacks. It would get boring really fast. Everyone running the exact same thing over and over again. Another problem is Bungie doesn’t refresh the Sandbox fast enough either. Ok we’ve admitted we’re always going to have meta’s. Should they cycle through them more frequently so eventually everyone will have their favorite meta at some point? Yeah I think that would help. But Bungies game engine is archaic and it just takes so long to change and test things. These are the things we’ve grown all to accustomed too. It doesn’t look like it’s changing any time sooner either.
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I could use almost any weapon and do fine if I don't play against LH/NF (in their respective range of course). I agree that the game will never be truly balanced but a nerf needed to happen to get us one step closer to a better sandbox
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Why is the low ttk a bad thing? There will always be a weapon that's optimised for killing guardians in the same way there will always be something that is optimised for dps against raid bosses. Such is the nature of the game, the nerf wont stop there being powerful weapons, all it does is give the people begging for a nerf a slither of hope for about half day until someone figures out the new god roll and the top tiers all use that instead
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The problem was it out shot every primary in the game besides TLW
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But again, I'm asking why is that a problem? LH and NF getting nerfed isnt going to stop there being a optimum weapon. All it'll do is push another weapon into the spotlight.
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Because this game would not surviving CoD ttk times. Yes there will be and are guns that shine better than others. These 2 made ttk artificially and exponentially low. Too low to have any real counters. This especially impacted the mid to lower tiers, the larger player pools, who were constantly match against much better players.
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There will be SO many more weapons that will be viable. Having 2 guns being able to outshine every primary ruins the small amount of balance we have.
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You mean the same way touch of malice outshone everything in D1 for dps? Why is having a select few weapons frowned upon if in crucible, but celebrated in PvE? Principle is the exact same. Where are the PvE whiners asking for variation to the raid load outs?
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I'm talking about PvP. I could care less what happens in PvE. You. Can practically do everything in the game with blue weapons
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I'm sure you are. But I'm asking what the actual problem is? PvE optimum weapons: no one cares. PvP optimum weapons: nerf omg plz nerf OP. So what is the difference?
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Are you actually a pvp player? Your responses make is seem like you really don't have a history with pvp. PVP inherently needs as much balance as it can get so it can strive to be about individual layer skill and [u]not about what weapon you use[/u]. That last part is a pve mentality. The mid tier and lower are quitting QP because of the u balance both the lack of SBMM and what these types of weapons have done to the enjoyment of the game. In my almost 20 years of pvp experience Destiny has been the hardest to balance mainly because of the abundance of weaponry. So the essential answer to your question is...pvp needs some level of balance to for the larger player pools to have fun. Or it won't survive.
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[quote]Are you actually a pvp player? Your responses make is seem like you really don't have a history with pvp. PVP inherently needs as much balance as it can get so it can strive to be about individual layer skill and [u]not about what weapon you use[/u]. That last part is a pve mentality. The mid tier and lower are quitting QP because of the u balance both the lack of SBMM and what these types of weapons have done to the enjoyment of the game. In my almost 20 years of pvp experience Destiny has been the hardest to balance mainly because of the abundance of weaponry. So the essential answer to your question is...pvp needs some level of balance to for the larger player pools to have fun. Or it won't survive.[/quote] Who are you talking to?
