[quote]Upvote for starting an important conversation that needs to be had. IMO there is just never going to be enough people playing to institute SBMM as long as we are split across three different platforms. We need millions playing in order for it to work right. Otherwise its just constant catch up mechanics. I also disagree with 4v4 needing to be deleted because its better to not have so much weight put on our shoulders with respect to individual skill. 3v3 contributes to too much toxicity and elitism. Imagine how much rage would ensue if comp was 3v3. 3v3 is fine for trials but it would still leave too many people out of the mix. The answer is to make PvP more accessible to solo players. They did it with Halo and they can do it with Destiny if they code it right. It was a good move to double the amount of points earned in comp for instance. More people are able to reach the middle ranks and earn the Fabled pinnacle weapons which in turn makes the rank you reach actually mean something, instead of having a giant pool of people stuck at the bottom and a small class of elites at the top with almost no one in the middle. Going forward they need to make it so that you don't necessarily need a clan or your raid team to go into PvP in order to succeed. All the talk about making how much you play and what you decide to do more meanignful needs to also be transferred to PvP. It should mean something if the highest you can get to is 4000. If you play people that are at 3000 you should feel that you earned your rank. The way it is now its mostly about luck or the fact that you played on a stacked team. The focus on stacked teams is the real problem. Its not a matter of SBMM or CBMM, there's much more going on in the background with respect to the way this game works than just connection or skill factoring. Teams will always have an advantage because of communication but the fact that the game doesn't really try to match solos of considerable skill against those teams is a mistake. Bungie has done a good job with PvP in D2 but that good job has been spread out over time and blended with bad decisions, many of which were probably made to try to give players with lower skill a chance (Telesto in season 4, Spectral Blades, etc.). If they could just take all of the best and apply it to one point in time this game would be one of the most skillful PvP expeiriences to date.[/quote] Appreciate the bump. I did find the statement about there will never be enough players to implement sbmm to be odd because almost the entirety of the rest of the post are bullet points for why it needs to be in the game. - making PvP more accessible to solo players is one of the primary functions of skill factors in matchmaking. Certainly there can be different methods of matching skill, but in D2's sbmm that is used in IB, that is a primary goal. -the focus on stacked teams is really a terrible fallout of the removal of skill because [i]any[/i] full fireteam is now labeled a stacked team when in most cases it's just friends playing together. Sbmm that exists in D2's Iron Banner averages out the skill of everyone in a fireteam and it tries to match vs other fireteams within a similar average skill window, but when matching solo vs fireteam it does EXACTLY what you're saying you wish it would. It tries to match solo players closer to the top skilled person on the fireteam rather than the median. To 4v4, I stand by my opinion of why it ultimately doesn't work and hurts the game in both design and socially. I'm also not sure where the Telesto point was going. It seemed a jab at players who used it, but the fact is, players gravitate to the easiest weapons and ways to get kills. For all the talk of Telesto not requiring skill, it's usage was a fraction of shotguns. Telesto was never op and it wasn't really hard to counter or not die to, but it did require a minimum effort that included not blindly charging everywhere with a shotgun.