[quote]1. Mara made multiple wishes, the wish that effects the dreaming city was made by the Guardians and savathun[/quote] The dreaming city (to protect the last city on earth, we must kill you Riven wish) wish was made by guardians. I'm not as convinced Savathun is involved with us yet. If judgement stands, Xivu Arath and a few other Hive Worm gods are potential threats through Dul Incaru. As for multiple wishes? Our guardian does not know that nor do we. Without knowing the details of the situations? We are hardly able to make a claim to the outcomes. I have little doubt Mara tested Riven to see the extent of her power and potentially wished for a throne world like Shattered throne or the queen's foil tinctures to pass into a realm... but the potential realities? Riven herself won't lay claim to all of it. Riven is interested in meeting us for some reason. This means the Queen has been utilizing quite a few resources with regard to both Riven and the Dreaming City without guardians or Awoken approving. Riven herself might very well have been the good person in all of this for simply wanting to bring us into the fold. We killed her though. [quote]2. When Oryx activated his weapon he basically sucked everyone into his ascendant plane, where Mara basically hid while we killed Oryx.[/quote] Actually, the dreadnaught is Akka. Akka is known for the Deep power. If that power is settled into it like I originally suspected in D1? Then the ascendant plane isn't everywhere. It's the actual dreadnaught which is the source of it in our plane of existence and can be used to siphon off all ascendant power. The gates? Is what allows a connection to be made, but guardians have never questioned why each plane is different or how deep each one is. Gambit. Primeval bosses come from the seventh layer. The dreaming city, however, is only the top layer. Our shattered throne quest? Is the same layer- 1st. Why is all this relevant? Oryx and the tablets and the gates as well as the ascendent plane known for draining guardians of our light the moment it contacts us are the doorways. The keys aren't the ahamkara. They use the windows. The rules of ascendancy change only when the Deep is involved. The Deep presence right now is any creature which has studied it enough which is Xivu Arath (unlikely, but possible), Oryx (likely considering it is down there), and Savathun for the Hive side. But you all conveniently keep forgetting the other worm gods are the keys and understand it the easiest.

We still do not know all of that. It was made before the Battle of Saturn and the history in the awoken lore in-game points to that. What isn't pointed to, in a big way, is where Riven started and where the Awoken started. The battle wasn't known that long from its actual occurrence and Oryx wasn't just in our system for Crota. Oryx had a draw. A pull which is being referenced by Savathun lore. Something is drawing them into our next of space and I can't think of any better indication since the Forsaken DLC launch that the Darkness isn't "on its way". The primary presence is already here. Been here the entire time under our noses.