Either way would have been fine - even for a forge exotic quest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe MMOs like WoW have had similar type situations where a group needed to complete something in order to unlock content for the rest of the community (more than just a strike or pvp map). The key difference being that everyone knew about it and it wasn't a surprise which left a whole bunch of eager players with nothing to do. We agree, the way this was released was a disaster.

This game, also, didn’t attract an MMO audience. It attracted a loot-based RPG audience. This stuff does NOT go over well with these kind of gamers. Once again Bungie is doing things without stopping to think about WHO they are making it for, and how it will impact them. Which is why this idea would have gone over well with the raid crowd, but is basically shitting in the punch bowl for everyone else.

Just saying, rumors right now are that they are gearing up to make D3 for more of a hardcore audience; more of an mmo audience. I, myself, would not mind that at all and I could well see events like this being part of that new experience. Had they not surprised us with wall on a day that we were expecting new content, this would have been viewed much differently is all I was saying. Had they released all forges, including this puzzle day 1, the elites would have figured out the puzzle for all to complete prior to the more casual type players even being able to get in and attempt it. There would not have been any let down.

If this event is a taste of the direction they are going with D3? Stop. Now. Train wreck in the opposite direction from D2.

Disagree, the more Destiny becomes a MMO the better it gets.

That may be your personal opinion. But it is out-of-step with the views of the majority of the player base. Because most of the really unpopular things that Bungie is doing right now are stratight out of the MMO playbook....and they are NOT landing well with the loot-based RPG sensibilities of the player-base. As well as the core identity of the game. In fact, one can argue that part of the reason why the game has not seen better growth/re-engagement since Forsaken is because Bungie overcorrected. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a pattern with them.

Maybe the game has the wrong player base. Destiny 3 is supposed to be more hardcore and more like an MMO. Bungie needs to start making the game they want to make and stop trying to please everyone. This playerbase can be replaced, there isn't an fps console mmo out. From the tone of these forums this playerbase will never be happy, no matter what Bungie does so losing it may not be a bad thing.

...and If Bungie takes that approach in the manner they are demonstrating so far....we'll have another trainwreck like vanilla D2. Vanilla Destiny 2 was not a bad game, but it was the WRONG game for the playerbase that Destiny had attracted. It was also the WRONG game for the BRAND that Destiny had created. That's the mistake that Bungie made...and continues to make. At 4.5 years into this franchise, THE GAME IS WHAT IT IS...AND HAS THE AUDIENCE THAT IT HAS. At this point it really doesn't MATTER what game Bungie **intended** to make.....or **wants** to make. They have the game that they ACTUALLY made. ...and if they want the franchise to be successful they need to stop FIGHTING the identity of the game that they made, and stop trying to TURN it into something else. Because the success of any product comes down to two things. 1. Setting expectations for both the experience being provided....and price. 2. Meeting those expectations. It is a recipe for destroying your own game if keep trying to change its identity to the point where no one can predict what kind of experience they are going to get for the money they spent. That's why so many people felt taken advantage of by what happened with vanilla Destiny 2. They expected one experience.....and Bungie gave them one dramatically different. The reverse is the continued success of Call of Duty despite player burnout and franchise fatigue. The franchise promises a particular experience....and consistently delivers it year after year. THIS game is a loot-based RPG at its core.....and trying to turn it into campaign shooter and an e-sport (vanilla D2) nearly destroyed it. This game is STILL a loot-based RPG at its core....and trying to turn it into World of Warcraft with guns will destroy it. THAT was the message that got delivered to Bungie yesterday. The CORE of the Destiny experience and brand isn't standing around in a room playing synchronized shooteing and trying to solve puzzles. [b]The Core of the Destiny experience is shooting aliens in the face.....burning them down with super-abilities.....and getting cool loot. [/b] Bungie needs to accept this...and STOP trying to change that.

If they advertise D3 as an MMO style fps and expect to have less success at launch it would work. D3 will be an entirely new game again. They can start over. I don't think this game was ever an RPG at its core. It was a grind game when it released. Switching to a MMO format would erase most of this playerbase but from the "truthful" post we see everyday this playerbase is leaving for good when Anthem and the Division 2 releases anyway. The only thing wrong with the labs puzzle was the lack of community participants. There was no trending thread here with steps to advance where we could have all pitched in. The post were all about how stupid it was or how hard it was. This is not a good playerbase for any developer to have. I really think Bungie should take the hit and drop some of the playerbase and make the MMO style game the WoW has proven works. I am playing with returning players now because this game has gone in this direction. Fallout took a shot at change, will it work out? At least they picked a direction and looks lie they are sticking to it.

Agreed, let’s weed out the people who hate Niobe and things like it so that D3 has the playerbase t deserves, no matter how small it is. Once the MMO lovers see what it has become, they’ll join in and this game will not only have more players than ever before, but also the “best” playerbase for the franchise

No. What you will have is a dead game. Because you'll chase off the existing player base....and game is too firmly branded in the minds of the public in order to "re-brand" itself as an full-fledged MMO at this stage in its life. If you want to go play World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, or Black Desert Online.....go play those games. Don't destroy this one.

Not true at all. Any game can rebrand itself with some good publicity and decent reviews. They won’t get as many preorders, but people will come after the reviews are out that say it has gone full mmo.

Destiny 2 tried to rebrand the franchise.....got good publicity....and very good reviews. ...and Bungie eventually had to roll back ALL the changes they made to the franchise at both great expense and embarrassment. Because all they managed to accomplish was to alienate their customers, and violate the trust that Destiny 2 would be an expansion upon the lessons learned in the last two years of Destiny 1. Trying to turn Destiny 3 into a hard-core MMO with guns----and abandoning its looter-shooter core identity----is the same mistake. Just in the opposite direction. ...and it will have the same---bad---outcome. INSANITY is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time.

The looter shooter side will never go away. T will just lean more in to the puzzles than it does the shoot everything until something happens. Have you ever heard of a happy medium?

[quote]Have you ever heard of a happy medium?[/quote] What? Like yesterday? What part of---The Vast Majority of People Who Play This Game Didn't Find it Fun...and Diddn't Want it Keeping Them From The Parts of The Game They Do Enjoy----was unclear?? This game is not a pure MMO. It didn't attract an MMO audience. ...and if you start holding the entire game HOSTAGE to MMO tropes to satisfy a small minority of the player base....you will alienate the MAJORITY. And your game collapses. That was the mistake Bungie made with vanilla D2. They BROKE the game for the majority trying to please a vocal minority (super competitive PVP players).