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11/16/2017 6:43:32 PM
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I will need to disagree. Having more difficult content available for those who appreciate the challenge is a huge positive.
In D1 we could 2 or 3 man almost every encounter. It’s refreshing to have something that will challenge a 6-man team.
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But the content is not difficult. The point is that Guardians, their armor, guns and abilities have been watered down to such an extent that a red bar psion can total you in the raid while you are pumping clip after clip into a yellow bar sponge. Guardian down, has anyone got a res? WIPE! Are the most common cries I here in a raid now. One weak link and it's a waste of time...lfg is usually a nightmare. The game feels as if we have been set up to fail from the start. It's not fun. And before you reply with .."so you just want an easy run through a raid"...no I don't. I want an intelligent, challenging, fun, keep me on the edge of my seat encounter...with loot, sweet, sweet loot not tokens!
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If it wasn’t difficult ppl wouldn’t die a lot
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Edited by pacificdune: 11/17/2017 2:09:25 PMEverything you mentioned does relate to difficulty though. Take vog for example. L26 started out very hard. Go in there overleveled with sleepers and Atheon goes down with barely a fight. It’s a joke. The point is to learn to effectively use the loadouts available including nades, abilities, supers, and exotics to stay alive and give your team the best shot at success. Put stronger guns in there? Too easy. In D1 we used to 3-man vosik hard mode to give ourselves a challenge. It’s refreshing to have a 6-man Challenge now.
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Edited by Springer: 11/17/2017 3:28:07 PMStop, I solo'd atheon, it doesn't make the VoG any less demanding. I 3 manned Aksis phase 2 also. Solo'd crota. Calus has Already been 2 manned (WITH all adds inside). All raids save KF have been "exploited". No difference in the leviathan.
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You haven’t played it so you are speculating
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What’s your point? Mine is that I support that Leviathan Challenge mode is... a challenge. 🙂
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Not all challenges are equally fun. For example, completing a marathon or completing torture training. Both are accomplishments that someone would typically be proud of but the experience along the way isn’t equal. It’s nice to have some end game challenge but for the raid, a lot of us would like interesting mechanics instead of just shifts in character/enemies health.
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Leviathan is one of the most mechanics rich raids in the Destiny Universe. It is right up there with kingsfall. I have seen many arguments that it is too heavy on mechanics.
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There is definitely a fine line and not all mechanics are equal. There has to be a blend between platformer elements, gun play, evasion, character abilities and etcetera. I’m looking for a challenge while still feeling like my character is effective. If mechanics make character gear/abilities obsolete then they’ve gone too far. Same if the enemies health is so great and damage output is overly high.
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It swings the balance too heavily towards mechanics, yes, but I understand the gun comment. A two-primary system creates inherently weak guardians. They can’t throw in a bunch of bosses or they would be criticized for it being a bullet-sponge fest (it still is - it’s just that EVERYTHING absorbs more bullets). What happens is the difference in strength between low-level enemies and bosses is narrowed. It creates a more uniform experience, but makes the game feel slower. What I’m saying is this... the boss may not be as big a bullet sponge as in year one, but difficulty is bumped up on the lower-level stuff. Overall the difficulty is there, but the experience is far less satisfying. This is one of the reasons Bungie relies heavily on timers in Nightfalls. The difficulty comes from forcing us to run through content faster. This is a tacit admission their Kung Fu is weak and they are forced to rely on a gimmick to make the two primary system fit into PvE. In the case of the raid, Bungie can’t rely on fights because the fights are bland. They are relying on gimmicks (heavy dance choreography) to make a two primary system work with raids. Some people like to dance fight so it’s okay with them; others want a gun fight. It truly is a matter of opinion I guess, but I think the D2 raid is the worst one yet by far.
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THIS ! ^^
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Ten bucks says heroic strike playlist will be same strikes, just add timer. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.
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om man - please don't say such things - you'll only give them ideas! I think a heroic strike playlist is a good idea - I have been staying as much (along with a lot of other things that should have continued from D1 into D2) But if they don't have strike specific loot to make it worth doing... if they tired that timer crap, the same way the screwed up the nightfall. ugh, they really do seem to have lost all notion of what made their game really fun and well received by the end of Age of Triumph. I keep saying - they wouldn't be stupid enough to f- that up - but then they keep proving me wrong. I couldn't bet against you on that on my friend, cause you may very well be right - but I hope you aren't. ! LOL
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Yeah...I loved NF in D1, but I just have no desire to go up against a timer in D2. I agree with the earlier comment that challenge and frustration are very different things--and some of the devices used to create 'challenges' in D2 have just created frustration...
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Yeah as I have posted a few times the MF timer is pure contrived artificial difficulty. Its not fun IMO.
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Agreed 100%. lol Here's to positive thoughts.
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I have been trying to stay positive, I hoped the livestreams would help me quell some of my fears for this game's long slippery slope of just crap. This past one hasn't helped. Hopefully the next ones will. IDK
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Edited by pacificdune: 11/17/2017 6:46:10 PMI don’t like dual primaries either. Stupid idea and no other game has done it. All I’m saying is I support a challenging activity. If they can make it equally difficult using primary, special, heavy that that would be awesome! I would love to take out psions with a fatebringer, blast centurions with found verdict, and then use my ghorn on Calus. I would need to think about my loadouts for skulls. Unfortunately, this dual primary thing is deeply entrenched. It likely will not go away until D3. 😪
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I love a challenge. I also like being rewarded for meeting the challenge. I want my character to continue to grow. There is literally not a single thing you can do with your character to grow once you hit 20/305, other than mods which make slight adjustments to abilities (and I mean slight). Well, that and you can cough up another $20-$30 for the DLC every three months for an additional 2-3 hours of feeling good. Beyond that, repeating content just to repeat it is pointless. Most of my clan stopped playing D2. When I get on, it’s solo. Know what really sucks in D2? Solo play. So if I buy the DLC, I do so with the sure knowledge after one week I will be playing solo again, because by then everyone will have finished the campaign and figured out the DLC is every bit as hollow as vanilla D2. Money isn’t really an issue. I have plenty. I want to stop rewarding Bungie for doing sub-par work.
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I’ll take the challenge over the reward. Sadly, if there was something substantial behind prestige then there would be an uproar over how it should be made easier so everyone can attain it. Solo sucks. Hit me up if you need a good clan. I’m a founder and we have over 100 members still active.
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They are copying games like ff14. Ff14 has dungeons but they have 3 version. Story for more casuals hard for those that want more challenge and extreme for those that want to die a lot. If your going to copy a game at least do it right . Ff14 has been out for 7 years and will still be going when Destiny is long gone.
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I play ffxiv religiously and understand, kinda, what you are saying. I WILL point out that ffxiv was a DISASTER at launch, so much so that Square Enix fired just about every developer, lead and creative designer who ever laid hands on the game. Actually, in all truthiness I think they even fired the nighttime janitors who took out the garbage. lol. Srsly, now it has a rabid and dedicated base. Bungie, instead doubles down on mistakes, sticks their hand in the sand when good ideas come outside of their Equestria. There is a MASSIVE difference in approaches to the game. And also inside game, mechanics etc... I understand your point but I don't see the "copy/paste" that you do.
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I think normal, hard, and prestige should be a thing.
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And this is where prestige versions of the Raid come in. To make the base version that much more difficult, enemies that much harder to kill, individual requirements on what to do, where to stand, what load out to have, ect., just makes the raid that much more unattainable for casuals.
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I was talking about prestige. The base version is very easy.
