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Edited by Ahhsenberg:
8/7/2017 5:55:26 PM
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They truly lost their way once they left their own community(Seventh Column) to die, [url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-12-the-day-the-music-died-when-bungie-fired-marty-odonnell]fired Marty over bullshit[/url], and then ultimately destroyed Destiny for the sake of attracting casuals. It's no longer about the fans or the quality of the game. No. It's about making as much money as possible no matter the negative repercussions.
[quote]@ownLife
If you've followed Bungie for any length of time (I've been a Bungie fan since Myth II), you'd be in denial if you believed what Bungie is doing now, compared to what Bungie has done, is A-Okay.
Old Bungie: amazing community, amazing games that didn't require spending $200+ to enjoy the full experience, lots of community involvement from the team (I used to love the Mail Sack posts), a more up-beat message, no Activision, no "exclusive" content, no pay wall... on and on.
New Bungie: a jaded community, a Bungie "community" member that clearly is more concerned with PR than actual substance, a marketing machine that boasts gameplay options that just straight up aren't true ("if you can see it..."), a massive paywall, limited options in-game... unless you pay, sparse involvement from the Bungie team, bare-minimum communication, more concern with "hype" than actual substance, a clear road map of releasing half-a-game, then using "DLCs" to "flesh-out" the rest of the game.... etc., etc....
If we're all being honest with ourselves, it's next to impossible to deny the fall of Bungie. Did they make a massively successful game with Destiny 1? Sure. Will Destiny 2 be huge? Yup. Does that matter? Not at all. Why? Because Destiny 2 will sell very well and make lots of money (gee, I wonder why they are releasing it on PC?), but the active player base will have a massive drop-off shortly after release, which will perpetuate this massively toxic community (for good reason), forcing Bungie to make more "decisions" about gameplay mechanics and additions, further isolating Bungie fans. And the cycle continues...
Make no mistake: New Bungie is a sad excuse for carrying the Bungie name. Denying this is an act of self-justification and ignorance. New Bungie fans jump from game to game. Bungie will feel this down the road and they'll be just another Dice or Massive--a drop in the gaming world bucket.
It's a shame, really, I can count on one hand how many game developers are genuinely moving the gaming industry forward, rather than cashing-in on a very lucrative business model. Sadly, Bungie is just another gaming company making lots of money by milking their customers for all they're worth.[/quote]
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"Without cause" he says after disrupting public briefings and acting unprofessional at work...
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I stayed mostly for the people. Should stay in the groups I enjoy and refrain from posting in main forum, I don't have too many nice things to say about D2, it's such a different direction than what I was hoping for back in 2013. Was still wishing for a surprise "mind blown" with the sequel until I played the beta, studio chose the most predictable route. ;(
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Pretty accurate.
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Agreed. Honestly I have nothing to add because it was said so well. I knew there were going to be problems when the top guys (Marty, Joe) left/were fired. I don't think that bungie is as sinful as most people say on these forums. I feel like these reactions are just products of the toxic community. But you're right, bungie is a shadow of their former selves.
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A lot of the hate Bungie gets nowadays is from the people that are upset with the game. I wouldn't bother paying attention to most of it as they will ultimately accept any changes and continue to play - as most did with Destiny 1. I'll admit that any of this "Bungie isn't what they used to be" talk is in part due to nostalgia and/or the act of beating a dead horse, but it's something that reflects on the problems of the community. People are mostly toxic or nostalgic due to the fact that Bungie no longer interacts with their fans the way they used to be renowned for. I'm sure a lot of the "sinful" accusations and "toxic" behavior would be drastically reduced if people felt like they mattered.
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Thanks for that article and all marty said confirmed all of my suspicions. I followed Destiny from when it was project tiger and forward. I regret not making a YouTube channel for all the info id gather or id be up there with em all now lol But i knew all along it had to have been activision involvement breaking up a game that was fulfilling all my gaming needs. Hopefully D2 delivers something closer to the original promise. BETA isnt the full game but from all ive seen we have some great things to look forward to. Just wish we had proxy chat and open world pvp
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No problem. I'm happy that you can enjoy things for what they are. I've played the Beta as well, but I have differing opinions. Oh the sorrows of being a PvE player.
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I have a nice healthy blend between
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So true. Bungie Halo had the world and its community was impressive. I have accepted that the Bungie I grew up on is gone and dead. Its community has been broken up to be replaced by entitled snowflakes, I believe they (we) are waiting for an FPS that will unite us again. I do not see that D2 or what ever game Bungie will spit out will ever be that FPS.
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Personally, I'm just stuck being here because of how much this place has been a part of my life growing up. I would've left by now if I could. Sounds a little pathetic, I know. Almost a decade old attachment/habit apparently doesn't fade easily. I don't see Bungie or their games changing until the industry in general does. Unfortunately, I don't see the industry ever changing as the newer generations of gamers will accept everything the way it is without a thought.
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Agreed.
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Perhaps this is just the gaming world evolving, and Bungie taking its place alongside so many others.
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Edited by Ahhsenberg: 8/8/2017 10:04:56 PMI actually agree with you. The gaming world has evolved into more of a business than an art form. What do you do when your consumers mindlessly buy everything you put out and don't hold you to any standards? Create a less costly product and create a strategy to keep as many people hooked on it as possible for future promotions. This results in incomplete games being released, a focus on cheap microtransactions, and all the other undesirable things that have popped up over the years. A good example of this(and possibly the franchise to blame) is Call of Duty: release games at a certain set interval, build upon existing resources, and release cheap DLC over the game's short lifespan. Everything changes. People need to work and make money However, these aren't reasons to accept changes for the worst and to give away your money.
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You are correct. Unfortunately, that's a terrible thing to happen.
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ON POINT! Especially the pay walls o man them payyyy walllss!!! Im from '86, i was part of the halo pc generation and next to all the other fallen games like unreal, halflife, doom etc halo stood out and got me going from the keyboard to the joypad for ever.....i mean remember reach 7 years ago ? A game FULL of potential building your own levels, flying vehicles, big team battles and all you had to do was...get the game.......now look at bungie... - paywalls paywalls paywalls - reskins on the getgo - hey! A new raid you guys?! Oh wait...paywall!
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Still rate half life as one of the great games!
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Me 2 next to the "unreal" series
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Nice to see more vets still in this community. I remember when the biggest problems Halo had were things like the Halo CE Pistol, Halo 2 glitches, Halo 3 boosters, and Halo Reach Armor Lock. Now look at everything.
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What about that double pink mist in Halo 2?
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Edited by Ahhsenberg: 8/9/2017 3:17:10 PMPsh. What are you talking about? That was just fine! ;) [spoiler]It was a guilty pleasure.[/spoiler]
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Personally, I think Bungie Sold their soul to Activision because they saw it as the only way to acquire the money they needed to in order to create the game of their dreams Destiny. Then as usual the devil came to collect and Bungie said hey we didn't sign up for this. So the guys who sold their soul paid the usual price death (fired) and now you have people working on a 10 year project that wasn't their dream game. It was someone else's dream. Naturally, they are trying to mesh their vision for a great game with someone else's vision and well that doesn't usually churn out the best product. I do think that it isn't right that they take away features of the game from people that don't buy DLC, but a majority of people that continue to play the game pay for dlc so it just gets washed over.
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Edited by Ahhsenberg: 8/8/2017 9:38:43 PMThey only paired up with Activison so they could get their games published to multiple consoles. That's their story when it first happened, anyway. I'm sure it didn't hurt partnering up with such a well known publisher and marketing wizard, though. The overall deal was that Activision gets to put their name on the box and are in charge of marketing while Bungie gets to be left alone with the game making decisions. I HIGHLY doubt that Bungie would even leave it to chance of another Microsoft partnership for a decade. There's been a ton of reports of management getting in the way of the game, though. There's been some internal struggles. Destiny 1 went the way it did because of this and led to the change in staff(especially writing) throughout the years. [quote]In the summer of 2013, just over a year before Destiny came out, the story got a full reboot, according to six people who were there. Bungie ditched everything Joe Staten and his team had written, reworking Destiny’s entire structure as they scrapped plot threads, overhauled characters, and rewrote most of the dialogue. The decision was made against Staten’s wishes, sources say. Destiny project lead Jason Jones and the rest of senior leadership were unhappy with the writing team’s supercut, and their reaction was to scrap it all.[/quote] [url=http://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731]Linky[/url] There's been a lot more harsh articles released on these things as they came out(mostly due to the Marty vs Bungie court documents), but I suppose the somewhat nicer version will do.
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First time I'd really read what went down with O'Donnell... Quite sad.
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Probably my biggest gripe with Destiny 1, just ahead of it being the laggiest multiplayer I've personally experienced, is the pay wall. Oh that pay wall. I'm sorry, but being locked out of content I already paid for unless I spend more money?! I don't know, that just really turned me off, and felt like shady business, to put it mildly. But it didn't seem to get too much hate in general, so I can only assume it'll carry over to D2, which would be disappointing.
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People, especially gamers, tend to justify their purchases. A lot of people will argue a "time played vs money spent" aspect or will flat out just say that you can't put a price on an experience/memories. Others will say that they spend money on other things of lesser value or that it's just "disposable income" in order to justify it. Not a lot of people seem to hold things to a standard or place value on money anymore. And as for seeing anything negative/critical with the pay wall, or anything else, it's hard to come by when people will be attacked for having such comments. You will be deemed as "toxic" and/or "entitled" if you aren't generally positive and accepting of what's going on. My assumption is also that the business model will stay the same going into Destiny 2. Having the DLC already planned before any official reveal was a big warning sign to that.
