Exactly 150 people. 149 and it will be an electronic desert. 151 and they will digitally trample each other.

[i] Reductio ad absurdum[/i], as well as a straw man argument. You can do better.

I don't know how I have an absurd conclusion, as my conclusions within my statements are based on your topic of conservation. Ahhh..... I understand, you are saying that everything you said is an absurd conclusion. Well done!! I knew you would come around. I'm moving on. Good luck!

Your wrong. Just look at the social structure and business environments of every major successful large (and small) scale business. For example, GE; thousands of employees world wide. Consider GE as large scale clan. Its quite successful in communicating and driving the direction of its employees base in order to achieve its business goals and practices. The problem is that when Bungie decided to add in its "lets hold your hand" option, in order to manage the functionality they realized they do not have enough hardware/software invested to make the process run smoothly, leading to a clan cap. Everyday I get closer and closer to canceling my pre-order, its a shame as I have been purchasing Bungie products since Halo and never canceled a purchase. I hope you see this post Deej..... (most likely never).

You're either a kid....or someone who has never actually had to WORK for one of those exceedlingly large groups. Such groups have to have extremely rigid structures, Formal chains of command and policies as a means of trying to MANAGE the very problems that Bungie is seeking to avoid. ...and even that is often unsuccessful. ...and the result is a place that is extremely toxic and dehumanizing to work in. Been there. Done that.

Thanks for the personal attack. It sounds like its possible that you might have worked in a large business and that the "toxic" environment is sill affecting you. Not once did I attack you personally. I have worked for large businesses 10K+ and small businesses 25+. You do have a point on some levels, "some" businesses can turn into what you have indicated; though that is usually from bad leadership. Keep in mind the size of the business does matter in what you are saying about toxic levels, its all about leadership. You need to keep in mind there are TONS of large and small business that are great. Even "small" clans can be extremely toxic and dehumanizing to be in. I am sorry that your Snowflake edges have melted slightly. Perhaps your Occupy Wallstreet = Antifa friends can keep you company? Good luck in the future, you gotta do something about that that toxicity that is still bothering you.

I feel as if you have been dealt a bad hand concerning employers and/or groups. Every successful government, company, or organization has had chains of command that must be adhered to. This type of model ensures proper thought and experience goes into important decisions that need to be made. Whether it's about the direction of a company or the personal issue of an employee. If it were not for strict/ridged chains of command bungie would not exist, nor destiny and we would not be having this wonderful debate.

I've been (fortunate) enough to have seen the FULL RANGE of human group behaviors. ...and you're missing the POINT. Why do you think every modern military...and every professional army going all the way back to the ROMANS have a military unit that is of about company (100 men) size? THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT 100 MEN IS THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ONE OFFICER (be he a Roman Centurion or a modern-day Captain) can know personally, AND both visually and vocally manage (in real time) in combat. He knows his men. His men know him...and each other...and they will fight for one another as a cohesive unit. Once you get larger than that, and that capacity breaks down. ...and in its place you NOW have to start instituging FORMAL methods of command-and-control. Written orders. Formal chains of command. Officers leading men that they don't know...and possibly don't care about (unless they make the effort to do so) . Soldiers being sent to die by officers who arent' in any danger themselves, and whom they may never have even seen. In a corporate setting, you start getting fiefdoms. Turf wars. Departmental squabbling, and back-biting. As well as ossifying " policies" that stifle individuality, creativity, and at times even PRODUCTIVITY. ..and its great that you bring Bungie up. Because Bungie execs FREELY admit that one of the biggest problems they faced as a company while working on Destiny 1, IS THAT THEY GREW TOO FAST. They were a small company at first that was used to having fluid roles, personalized interactions, and informal ways of doing things. But---because they needed the manpower with the success of this game and meeting the demands for content and suppor----they doubled their size in only a few years...... ...and they admit that CHAOS was the result. Because they had grown past the ability to manage the company and its employees in the informal, personal ways that it had before.....but lacked the formal structures and organization, that a group the size that they had become needed. But, hey. There are certain situations where such large groups are beneficial, if you need (man)power to tackle large issus. But they are NOT beneficial if you're trying to promote more personalized interaction among members of the group.

Well put. Bungie basically said as much in TWAB.

Because you can have a unified clan with members around the globe that all play with those in the same timezone. Using the 150 number to say we need that for a personal level of gaming misses the point. A larger clan cap helps to build a larger community. And then within that community you can easily find people to play with. The 150 number from a human, social aspect does in no way even apply to clans unless you have further more in depth relationships with those members in your clan. Seeing a large clan in practice would help you realise how it functions.

Agreed, if Kellygreen was part of a larger clan such as ER that has divisions across the globe who ALL play together in multiple weekly events that are scheduled and coordinated, he/she would understand better how this cap is a detriment to larger clans.

How many of those people do you know personally and interact with on a regular basis? If you are HONEST with yourself, you will realize that that number tops out somewhere between 100 and 150 people. As groups get larger the relationships become less personal, and managing the group becomes more difficult.

Unless you are posting under an alternate account, you have very limited play time in this game. If you have ever been part of a large clan I can only assume it was inactive or run poorly. I played solo all year one, was a part of several small clans in year two, and I have never felt more at home and had more fun than now in ER (which is a large clan and will be affected by this cap). I challenge you to join a larger clan that is run well, has high community involvement, and incorporates divisions from across the globe. Once you experience the joy of having people to play with no matter the time of day, day of the week, month of the year, or cultural background you may change your opinion. I do respect your opinion as it stands because everyone is entitled to an opinion. Join and you will have knowledge from both sides of the fence, doing so will either reinforce your argument with evidence or may change your stance.