The point of this post isn't that we teach or coddle these kids. The possibility of them learning or changing is a bonus. The real point is that we, as adults, should be behaving with more maturity. If we accept someone into our fireteam, adult or kid, we accept responsibility for how we treat them. And we should be treating CHILDREN better than most of us are. Heck, I talked about what to do if they cry, but I never said you have to make sure they stop crying, did I? No, I just said that you should continue to speak kindly, ask them to leave, and if they refuse, kick them. It's about our responsibility, not their behaviour.

But beyond common courtesy, we have no responsibility to anyone. That's what I'm trying to get across.

I think you're wrong about that. No, you're not responsible for maintaining the well-being of others however, you ARE responsible for the actions you take that damage the well-being of others. The general complaint that I have seen in these kinds of situations is that we have a toxic community, and "squeakers" are seen as a part of that. However, after looking at how we TREAT these kids, it's fairly obvious that the issue is coming from the side of the adults and HOW it is that the adults are dealing with the disruptive children. However, to go a step further, "common courtesy" is a base point to be used in everyday interactions that are going well. "Common courtesy" does absolutely NOTHING to FIX problems that arise. As soon as one person abandons it, it will not restore anything. The entire point of the post, once again, is how we are going to FIX things. And let me be clear, not everyone is responsible for fixing this. However, the people who HAVE berated CHILDREN are responsible for their actions, and it IS their responsibility to pitch in and help fix what they can. Have you continued in common courtesy and, when you've met with a disruptive child, treated them with dignity up to the termination of your interaction? Good, no need to help. Have you berated a child or kicked them with little to no warning or empathy? Get in line and help. And to be further clear, I've made this mistake before. I've had my issues, and it's helped me realise this, and that's part of why I've made this topic. To start helping. You, however, are not helping, you are starting to hinder.

Damage their well being? Nonsense. If they are so vulnerable then they shouldn't be playing with random people on the internet. If words, or being kicked from a party are enough to actually hurt a child, then it is child abuse for their parents to let them play online. You keep blaming the wrong people. Do these kids not have parents? You're preaching this "it takes a village" happy go lucky bullsh!t, without any thought of the people who actually are responsible for these kids. Common courtesy is a great barometer for any interaction. If you are using it, and someone cannot be bothered to extend it to you, then you are no longer expected to do so. It's great if you do, because you don't have to "stoop to their level" but at the same time, there's no reason to waste any effort on someone who isn't putting any of their own in. The only way to fix this situation/these kids, is for people to stop thinking of games as a great babysitter. All too often I've seen kids plonked down in front of a tv because their parent's can't be bothered. I treat everyone with common courtesy. In my entire time playing destiny, I've only met one child who was so disruptive that things devolved from that. Only after treating this little person as a person, not some fragile child, did they shut the f\/ck up and buckle down.

There's one big issue with your viewpoint, and it is the lack of a way to fix issues. Apologizing and behaving never fixes things, it just patches them over for a time. And with your view that you don't have to keep using common courtesy, or you can if you don't want to "stoop to their level" it doesn't sound like you really believe even in that. I'm not just talking about kicking here. I've heard adults really giving it to a young teenager (no squeaky voice, but still young) because he was having difficulty. I've heard adults rage at kids. There's some real -blam!-heads in Destiny. That's what I'm trying to make better. And you want to come along and tear it all down because you don't want to feel responsible for extending common courtesy a LITTLE bit further. You weren't the main target of this, but the fact that you can't see far enough past your own meesly objections to a bigger picture is incredibly selfish. There are kids who, like many adults who play this game, don't have friends they can spend time with, and don't have much else to do, and this is what they put their interest in. There are 1001 different situations for this game, and you want to blanket cover all of them with "If they are so vulnerable then they shouldn't be playing with random people on the internet". Yeah, there are some idiot parents out there, but guess what, the BEST ANSWER for how to improve OUR COMMUNITY is for the people in OUR COMMUNITY to treat CHILDREN better. To ENCOURAGE each other to be KIND to kids, even if the little blighters are misbehaving. Get out of your own little corner of spite and self-righteousness and look around for once.

You're still so focused on this idea that it is somehow our problem to fix. You want a way to fix it? Ok. Don't play with kids until they are mature enough. Simple. Done. Solved the crisis. Not wanting to feel responsible, and not being responsible are two different things. I'm not responsible for someone else's kids. Even the gaming industry has washed their hands of that idea. Why do you think think online interaction in games is specifically mentioned as "not rated"? Just because I'm not responsible doesn't mean I can't be supportive though. It's this idea that we have to be nice to kids, and handle them with kid gloves; that's what I have a problem with. I'm not trying to tear anything down. I'm speaking from personal experience, and disagreeing. It's not the end of the world if we don't all see eye to eye. You're reminding me of BLM. Only focusing on one part of the issue at hand. If our "community" treated each other like this regardless of age, sex, race, etc, it would be a nicer place. Why is it somehow ok to berate or kick someone who is an adult? Why should children get preferential treatment? It does amuse me that by me simply disagreeing with you, has you a post or two away from devolving into name-calling. You've already started with the backhanded insults, so it's only a matter of time.

You keep ignoring one fact. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANOTHER PERSON'S KIDS. HOW many TIMES do I HAVE to SAY that before PEOPLE LISTEN. You ARE responsible for how YOU treat people, and the consequences of those actions for themselves AND other people. I'm trying to get it across to the people who DON'T act with maturity that THEY are responsible and need to be more mature, ESPECIALLY where a CHILD is involved. As far as preferential treatment for kids goes, not every single human being is different. It's not about YOUR needs, its about theirs. It's the reason why we have wheelchair accessible doors and sidewalks. And sidewalks with bumps for blind people. Kids react differently to different stimuli because they DON'T understand them all. It's got nothing to do with preference. And I'm not name-calling, buddy. = P I'm trying to focus your attention on your attitude and words so that you can see through a different lens. Look back up there, there are no insults. Only observations of behavior. And it's a terrific display for why I'm right when I say that we should treat them well EVEN IF they're being disruptive. Because you, having just a little piece of something that you could twist to say I'm insulting you are already trying to make it look like I'm going to descend into name-calling. You're already blaming me for going off the rails. The most I've done is use caps lock.

Everyone is ignoring that fact because they are one and the same in this context. Clearly we aren't saying we aren't responsible for getting them on the bus in the morning or making sure they do their homework. We're saying we aren't responsible for their fragility and need for an extra helping of concern when it comes to party chat and the game. Of course our words are our responsibility, but how someone takes those words (or lack thereof in the case of silent boots) is not our responsibility. Having a negative interaction with someone does not necessarily create a monster. I work with the elderly and disabled, so I'm well aware of people having different abilities and/or needs. There is however a difference in society when it comes to facilitating life, or facilitating a good time. Gaming is a casual privilege, not a serious right. I'm not sure what language you are used to, but in english- referring to someones opinion as "meesly" is generally considered an insult. As is talking down to someone. I'd like to know how that somehow makes you right about treating children in a different manner than we would treat an adult.