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Edited by Kone19ps:
4/9/2017 4:36:27 PM
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Disagree. I don't want a return to boring 0.6-0.4 ttk. The faster the pace the more of a twitch shooter and who sees who first wins it becomes and the more bored I get.
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PvP has been boring since the 2.0 patch, and has got even slower and more boring since then.
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How about a TTK of .75? Right now on average the TTK is about .8 something. Then there are weapons that take an entire second or longer which hurt their usage.
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Its better to make primaires kill slightly more consistently, from further out, and be given more versatility. Then make specials great in their given location That way fun can return like in year 1. Primaries will see primary usage, and specials will be used in their given locations A shotguns cannot hope to roll up on an auto that kills the way it does now at medium range.
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Yer! Primary weapons should make people feel less comfortable about running up to you with a shotgun or sniping you whilst receiving headshot damage.
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No, they shouldent over power shotguns or snipers, just offer more good things, while specials offer one great
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 10:48:08 PMI didn't say that they should 'overpower' any of those weapons.
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Hence why the special-primary balance has been imbalanced since 2.0. People want to use everything, but are so afraid a slight buff to primary TTK will turn the game into CoD, that they are unwilling to allow the actual problem to be fixed. There would have never been an issue with specials to cause the ammo to be removed on death if primary ttk was buffed. But of course people don't want everything in the game usable, but they want a primary weapon meta. Hypocrites, all of them.
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 5:37:24 PMI agree that people are quite hypocritical. Many people asked for primary weapons to get nerfed the moment they get buffed just because they are seeing it being used more often, which means they are dying by it more often. People are going to try out a weapon when it gets altered, so your obviously going to see the name pop up more often when you get 'outplayed'.
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Be specific with what you mean by slight buff.
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I've specified my amounts in other posts for months now. There really isn't a need for me to repost it again. However I'll indulge you this once, as you asked nicely 👍 If average TTK is at 1.0 reduce it by .1-.2 (to .9 or .8) again you have to case by case it as some will need it less than others. So a gun that is currently at .8 may or may not necessarily need a change from current depending on other factors. But again, it comes to case by case.
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Technically the ttk is already average about 0.9 for optimal ttk. Only high impact scouts, high impact handcannons, and high-mid pulses are 1.0. So a slight adjustment could probably be done. It's more the faster ttk weapons that become more of a problem as they adjust up and would need to be compensated for. The major issue is the reassessment of all weapons and perks that would take. It's a D2 job most likely
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[quote]Technically the ttk is already average about 0.9 for optimal ttk. Only high impact scouts, high impact handcannons, and high-mid pulses are 1.0. So a slight adjustment could probably be done. It's more the faster ttk weapons that become more of a problem as they adjust up and would need to be compensated for. The major issue is the reassessment of all weapons and perks that would take. It's a D2 job most likely[/quote] The 1.0 ttk was only for ease of example, but yes because of the mess they created back around 2.0, it would take an extreme amount of fine tuning to adjust these properly to where everything was usable and balance to be properly restored. It's probably why they went with the special ammo removal as a quick fix, because the amount of fine tuning the primaries they needed to do would have taken them too long to try and fix at this point, so they took the easy way out on it. I feel they didn't take the balance between special and primaries into account when they went with the initial adjustments with 2.0, and it got worse with the December patch and the April updates back during year 2. It's why people just ran specials as primaries, and if they had done things properly, the game would not of spiraled into the mess it became. Agree with this going to be up to D2 at this point, and hopefully they don't repeat their mistakes from the past.
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I've made a similar comment to this somewhere in the post. I'd use the original Clever Dragon's TTK as a benchmark for other weapons.
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 4:39:28 PMI never asked for the TTK you specified, so I'm not sure who you are disagreeing with.
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That was the HOW ttk. Almost everyone who posts about this asks for year one ttk. You also agreed with supreme butthurts 0.65.
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 4:48:18 PM[quote]You also agreed with supreme butthurts 0.65.[/quote] "I'd be happy with a slightly lower primary TTK in D2. I might finally decide to use one when I still have special ammo." That's what I said. Also, I didn't specify a particular DLC. I'd like weapons such as ARs and pulse rifles to have a lower TTK. If all pulse rifles had a TTK similar to the original Clever Dragon, I'd be happy. If other weapons could have a TTK that was balanced around that, I'd be very happy.
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Edited by Kone19ps: 4/9/2017 5:09:31 PMSo about a 0.8 rather than 0.9 average we have? The thing is you have to account for the entire thing shifting. It reduces nuance. So for example the 1.0 ttk high impact scouts and handcannons would be faster and more punishing. Especially with their body shot damage. With team shots the combined ttk would plummet. That's the other thing this game is balanced for team shooting not 1v1s or the team advantage would be exponential. There are also weapons like jade rabbit with a condition ttk of 0.66. If you reduce everything so does that. My two shot with reactive reload scholar would be top of the meta easy along with the litc handcannons. You also decrease the amount of wiggle room between weapons so many of the variants would become less useful and fall out of the meta as well. It's a difficult balance but personally I don't want a return of regular two taps. The thorn and messenger meta infuriated me. Clever dragon in that meta had no downsides except extreme range not seen on many maps. Same thing happened with matador. There isn't enough nuance to shotguns so that archetype will always be best especially when it can roll full auto
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That low fire rate is extremely detrimental against seasoned opponents. A miss, will likely lwave you dead, often why he recent nerf is creating such hardship for shotguners in higher levels of play Simply too easy to dodge a shotgun now with the lower aim assist and the low fire rate and low damage will often give death
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 5:26:18 PMI didn't ask for weapons below the original Clever Dragon's optimal TTK to be reduced further. I also stated that I'd like weapons to be balanced 'around' that type of TTK, which suggest getting a similar result but not necessarily a similar TTK. This means that Bungie should consider the range and fire rate of weapons, etc. Ideally, all weapons would match the optimal lethality of the original Clever Dragon in their respective ranges. An example would be the relationship that the Jade Rabbit and medium rate of fire handcannons have now. [u][b]I'd want the original Clever Dragon's TTK to be the benchmark for other weapons. [/b][/u] What I don't want is the type of relationship weapons that auto rifles have with handcannons and medium/high rate of fire pulse rifles. ARs have no speciality, in my opinion. They are not ideal in any situation.
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Edited by Kone19ps: 4/9/2017 5:26:20 PMThat's not what I said. Clever dragon was a 0.8 ttk. Just to balance around that as the average rather than the 0.9 of now is a bigger switch than you think because you're balancing around a weapon with no drawbacks due to map size
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 5:31:29 PMYou're thinking about the weapon. I'm thinking about the weapon's TTK being the benchmark. I want every weapon to feel like it can kill in the same time as the Clever Dragon did, but only when they are used [u]optimally[/u]. I've said this already, and have even given an example of the relationship between weapons.
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Edited by Kone19ps: 4/9/2017 5:32:04 PMMaybe for D2 then. Like I said that would demand a huge rework of all weapon personalities at this point. I also doubt it's a new engine. I'm not expecting drastic changes and a lot of reused assets
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Edited by HyperVigiIant: 4/9/2017 5:34:06 PMBungie never tweak much when they patch weapons. Now that we are going to lose all our "stuff", I'm hoping for a more drastic change.
