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3/8/2017 12:32:13 AM
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[quote]Wikileaks has dumped information claiming the CIA have been spying on people under the code name 'weeping angel' using internet connected cars, tv's and phones even when off
Even Snowden is claiming the documents look accurate and the CIA had refused to comment.
While this isn't surprise it's a disgusting breach of privacy not listed in any terms and conditions. Good on Wikileaks.[/quote]
No where in the article does it say the CIA is doing this.
The leaks seem to be saying that the CIA has the capabilities/technology to do this.
Being able to doesn't necessarily mean any rights have been violated.
English
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do you really think that they will just develop technology and sit on it? i can guarantee you that they have used it. the law doesn't matter to them, they think that they are above it because they have had secret courts override scotus decisions against them before.
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I'm sure they have and will use it, on foreign soil against our enemies. These programs are tools. There is no evidence to suggest they are using it on the average citizen, especially since the CIA isn't permitted to operate on US soil.
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do you honestly believe that they abide by that? they don't.
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The full article talks about them storing and hoarding exploits, why would they do this and develop the means to do this if they don't plan on using it?
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Maybe they do plan on using it. It can be a valuable tool when fighting our enemies. There is no evidence that they have used the programs on citizens. The CIA is only permitted to collect intelligence on foreign soil.
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[quote]Maybe they do plan on using it. It can be a valuable tool when fighting our enemies. There is no evidence that they have used the programs on citizens. The CIA is only permitted to collect intelligence on foreign soil.[/quote] Only makes it more of an issue. Just because you're not American doesn't mean you can't have a right to privacy
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[quote][quote]Maybe they do plan on using it. It can be a valuable tool when fighting our enemies. There is no evidence that they have used the programs on citizens. The CIA is only permitted to collect intelligence on foreign soil.[/quote] Only makes it more of an issue. Just because you're not American doesn't mean you can't have a right to privacy[/quote] What about ISIS? Wouldn't you want these capabilities to fight the war on terror? Wikileaks basically just told the world what we are capable of. Now our enemies can strengthen their defenses.
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[quote][quote][quote]Maybe they do plan on using it. It can be a valuable tool when fighting our enemies. There is no evidence that they have used the programs on citizens. The CIA is only permitted to collect intelligence on foreign soil.[/quote] Only makes it more of an issue. Just because you're not American doesn't mean you can't have a right to privacy[/quote] What about ISIS? Wouldn't you want these capabilities to fight the war on terror? Wikileaks basically just told the world what we are capable of. Now our enemies can strengthen their defenses.[/quote] There would still be collateral damage when innocent people get spied on. It's still not okay.
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[quote][quote][quote][quote]Maybe they do plan on using it. It can be a valuable tool when fighting our enemies. There is no evidence that they have used the programs on citizens. The CIA is only permitted to collect intelligence on foreign soil.[/quote] Only makes it more of an issue. Just because you're not American doesn't mean you can't have a right to privacy[/quote] What about ISIS? Wouldn't you want these capabilities to fight the war on terror? Wikileaks basically just told the world what we are capable of. Now our enemies can strengthen their defenses.[/quote] There would still be collateral damage when innocent people get spied on. It's still not okay.[/quote] But there is no evidence that innocent people are being spied on. People are [u]assuming[/u] the CIA is spying on average citizens just because they have the capability to do so. It's logic based on fear and paranoia.
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And you doubt they did because?
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Because the CIA working on programs that lets them hack into smart tvs and phones make sense. They should have that capability. It could be used as a vital tool when used legally or against enemies of the American people. Using that to spy on average citizens doesn't make sense. The CIA is only allowed to collect intelligence on foreign soil.
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If that was their mission, they would have notified the companies who sell the products that they have found security flaws in so that these flaws could be fixed. Remember when the FBI was going after Apple when they were trying to get into the San Bernardino phone? Where was the CIA enacting its national security mission there?
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[quote]If that was their mission, they would have notified the companies who sell the products that they have found security flaws in so that these flaws could be fixed. Remember when the FBI was going after Apple when they were trying to get into the San Bernardino phone? Where was the CIA enacting its national security mission there?[/quote] The CIA didn't get involved because they only work on foreign soil and aren't allowed to collect data on US citizens in the country. They didn't need to notify companies of these flaws because they were already known. We already know hackers can tap into webcams and there were news articles about the vulnerability of smart tvs ages ago.
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Edited by The Cellar Door: 3/8/2017 2:13:47 AMKnowledge of intrinsic vulnerability =/= explicit exploits Bypassing encryption and breaking it are two very different things. They kept it open so that they could use it. But that's fine, believe what you want. The grand and infallible government totally wasn't using the spying tools that they could totally use to spy on its own citizens, to spy on its own citizens. No, America would never do that. Oh that NSA thing a few years back? Pffft. Meaningless. Snowden was a traitor I tell you! These leaks are meaningless! This is only part 1 of the leaks, just wait till you see what's next.
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All speculation. Come back when there's evidence of wrong doing.
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[quote]All speculation. Come back when there's evidence of wrong doing.[/quote] The wrong doing is having knowledge of zero-day vulnerabilities and not informing those companies. You do realize these vulnerabilities aren't exclusive to the government right? If they can do it, anyone can do it. That means these vulnerabilities are, in fact, a direct threat to public safety. It is the reckless endangerment of U.S. Citizens' privacy and information. This is more than some texts. This is literally access to the entire device that they illicitly kept from the companies selling them. If you still don't think there is something wrong with that, maybe I should remind you that the Obama administration made a public commitment to do the exact opposite in 2013. (Refer to: VEP) Also, how do you feel about the exploit tools coming from the FBI? Are they not using them to spy on innocent civilians? https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_21561399.html
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Edited by Gravy Train: 3/8/2017 3:01:43 AMHow do you know they kept these exploits from companies? They aren't a consumer oversight agency. It isn't their job.
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[quote]How do you know they kept these exploits from companies? They aren't a consumer oversight agency. It isn't their job.[/quote] ...Because they explicitly list which OS's their exploits work for and which don't... They're suppose to be protecting citizens rights. This is a part of there job. Further more, evidence of intelligence agencies sharing these exploits: https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_13205587.html Specific uses of exploits for certain android devices: https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_11629096.html You obviously don't understand the gravity of this situation if you brush it off like it's nothing. Are you one of those people who shrugged off the Snowden leaks, saying "I'm innocent I have nothing to hide?"
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Forgive my ignorance, but what in that first link indicates that the information is being shared between agencies? All I see are codenames and technical jargon that I don't understand. I'm genuinely curious. It's hard for someone like me with next to no understanding of this kind of stuff to glean much of anything useful from the original information itself.
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Edited by The Cellar Door: 3/8/2017 4:35:07 AMIn the "found by" column, the NSA, FBI, and interestingly so, GCHQ, are all mentioned.
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Edited by tjustie: 3/8/2017 4:36:28 AMAh. I completely missed that I guess. And the GCHQ is British? Huh.
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Snowden revealed that the NSA was collecting data illegally. These CIA leaks show what the CIA is capable of when it comes to technology. I've yet to see evidence of them doing anything illegal.
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Perhaps not by US law. The ethical consideration here is necessary. It has been argued before that VEP should be law, and as I said, Obama made a commitment which, evidently by these leaks, has not been followed. The CIA knowingly kept the vulnerability which in turn endangers anyone with a device which is vulnerable, including US citizens, from the very companies that could fix it. That's -blam!-ed up if you ask me, and the fact that you're nonchalantly disregarding it is absolutely outrageous. Also, there is a page in which they describe how to illegally bypass the key verification for Windows. So there's your illegal activity for you. Pitiful how the extent of US law is your moral code.
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I'm being nonchalant about it because it's no surprise that our spy agency has hacking tools. If an undercover operative infiltrated an ISIS compound, I'd hope they'd be able to crack any phones or computers to get valuable Intel. I'd even be okay with them looking at Kim Jung Un through his smart tv. But don't think I'm advocating the use of such tools on average citizens. If it turns out that they are, I will be outraged as well. But I'm not going to get upset because our spies are capable of spying.
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No, I still don't think you understand why this is a problem. If they can exploit these vulnerabilities, [i]anyone[/i] can. All it takes is someone to hack the CIA....oh wait.
