OK. So I've had a listen..... Here is how i generally view weapon balance. You have Close/Medium/Long ranges. Each range has a sub set of weapons that are extremely powerful inside of those given ranges. For example. [b][u]Close[/u][/b] [quote]Autos Sidearms Shotties[/quote] [b]Medium[/b] [quote]Pulse Rifles Fusion Rifles[/quote] [b]Long[/b] [quote]Scout Rifles Sniper Rifles[/quote] [u]There are what I believe to be hybrid weapons.[/u] [b]Close/Medium[/b] [quote]Handcannons Heavy Machine Guns[/quote] [b]Medium/Long[/b] [quote]Rocket Launchers[/quote] In a perfect world. Close range weapons wouldn't be beat by a long range weapon, when used at close range. (Just apply this statement recursively to all ranges respectively.) I believe also, that every weapon archetype should have it's intended role. Meaning... [b]Bullet hose autos.....[/b] [quote]should be best used when hip sprayed at extremely close range, with intention to compete directly with a shotgun.[/quote] [b]Mid rate of fire autos[/b] Longer range than bullet hose, able to out DPS the bullet hose at a longer distance due to drop off from bullet hose. and so on and so on. In destiny Weapon archetypes there are no clear roles for them. Nearly every auto is the same. with respect to DPS and drop off. Also, the special and heavy weapons have 2/3 the TTK of all primaries. (meaning that an average primary is .8-1sec average special/heavy is .5-.7) This is why they are favored. Primaries are pathetically weak when compared to all other weapon slots. This is why we need to buff them. I'm OK with the variance in TTK on primaries, but they need to flat out kill guardians faster. [b]Map size is a huge issue. [/b] On maps like the ones you see in combined arms, there is a very different subset of weapons that are effective there. I went 21-0 with a Hand of Judgement. Snipers are more skill based, because they are actually sniping at sniper ranges. You can actually see the damage drop off from your beloved Clever Dragon. Everyone's fighting style has a role, and it's amazing to play combined arms. Easily my favorite crucible mode. As for the rest of the crucible maps. Scout range? negligible Pulse Rifle range? negligible Sniper rifle range? negligible The maps aren't big enough to see the drop off, and high rof pulses can compete with autos at close range/ other pulses at mid range/ and scouts at long range. It's not the weapons fault in this instance, it's the map's fault. [b]It's also true that nearly every weapon change is because of PvP. There are no PvE advocates.[/b] Except for the good ol forum folks. It really is a problem. RWG pointed out the special ammo nerfs. This literally had no effect on PvP, at all. However, had a massive impact on PvE. Clearly that change didn't hit it's intended audience. Also, when was the last time you used a Shotgun in a strike? I think last time I did it was when they had that 100% damage buff back in year one. It was amazing. Handcannon reserve ammo is pathetic, and varies wildly between hand cannons... even in the same archetype. (Fever and Remedy vs. Hawkmoon) you can maybe carry 80 rounds with Hawkmoon, and over 100 with Fever and Remedy. Who the hell said "Handcannons clearly have tooooooooooo much reserve ammo" Now you know what I have to use for maximum sustainability? High impact scout. They have enough reserve ammo. Do you know how many weapons are completely useless in PvE? Seriously... look in your vault and think really hard about what you actually use in strikes. For me.... High Impact handcannon (Usually first curse)/ High impact Scout (Chaos Dogma) Sniper (I use fusions on burns) HMG (too many accidents with rockets) There are only 2 pulse rifles I use. 1. Outbreak Prime 2. Steel Medulla That's because their perks are very PvE oriented and given the correct situation, extremely effective. I only use 1 auto Genesis Chain, and I only use it in Crota's End for the lamps, it's a great thrall clearing gun. That's it folks. Nearly every other weapon is completely worthless for killing anything besides guardians. [b]EDIT[/b] [quote]Just left the stream. It was pretty pathetic.... yet again. "We don't want to nerf anything" 2 seconds later.... "Here's all the shit we nerfed" Shotguns were hit again, removed precision damage (which is something battlefield did a long time ago, so that's a pretty good change), reduced accuracy etc. They removed the movement penalty, so that's nice. Universal Remote scored it's own nerf.... again.... for literally no reason. "too potent" they said. bah. High RoF pulse rifles scored a slower RoF. The entire class of weapon had a base flinch nerf, and the effect of HCR is reduced. Low RoF pulses got a RoF increase (which still won't be enough) Hand cannons had an accuracy reset back to year 1, however....... Damage drop of starts sooner, and damage drop off now drops further. Meaning that it used to drop to .5(%max_damage%) now looks more like .25(%max_damage%) so some give and take there. Auto rifles scored a .05% (lol) precision damage buff. So that's nice. Not enough of a buff in my opinion, but hey... at least it's something. Once you die in PvP you lose all special ammo, curious how this will translate to PvE... poorly i'd imagine. (given recent history) All in all.... still no change in the pathetic TTK of primary weapons. nice try bungie... but you missed the mark again. I predict about 3 weeks of "Best crucible ever" "Great weapon variety" posts then the new meta will settle in and we will all be right back here complaining about the next best special weapon/ Primary weapon god combo. Crucible is predicted to be unplayable for people like me for 6-8 more months. Will follow up next week when final notes are released assuming they are actually correct (looking at you previously incorrect patch notes) [/quote]