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originally posted in: The US now has a Ministry of Truth
Edited by Vgnut: 1/1/2017 11:37:59 PM
4
Putin's MO is to sow chaos. I would not be surprised to see Russia, through nefarious means, continue to meddle in American elections. I would also not be surprised to see Putin do it for the benefit of the Democrats in 2018 or 2020. What would be devastating to the country, if true, would be if Putin let it out that Trump was indeed up to his eyeballs in debt to Russian oligarchs and knew that the Russian government was interfering in the election. The blow to trust in the Oval Office would make Watergate look like a minor indiscretion. Trump would not only be impeached but, and the irony of this would be incredible, rile up a Democratic, Republican, maybe even third party contender that promises to jail Trump (a political taboo Trump broke) or even one up him and promise to hang him for treason. Chaos and confusion are Putin's MO. It's how he operates the Russian government and it's what he does in countries that he needs to be destabilized. Or none of this comes to fruition, the house of cards that is Russia finally collapses, and Putin ends up being forcibly removed from office. Also OP is trolling like it's 1984.
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  • So censorship is good, as long as it comes from the russians? Just ignore that this can be used against anyone, not just Russian media.

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  • Yes and no. Like many tools of government it depends who uses them. The Russian government has made it clear that their intention is to interfere in foreign elections to sow chaos. We're going to see it again with Germany's upcoming election. We will probably see it again in the 2018 midterms and 2020 election. Something needs to be done. We have now seen the Republicans, their presidential nominee, and supporters of the party quite happy with foreign governments interfering in domestic elections. This is highly problematic as we've now green lit domestic politicians to work with foreign governments possibly outside the confines of American law. Is this good or bad? I don't know. I have Google'd the bill, but it is hard to sift through the hyperbolic articles with activist agendas citing George Orwell's 1984. I am sure some of the articles mean well while others just seek to discredit/undermine Obama/Democrats/Government

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  • [quote]Yes and no. Like many tools of government it depends who uses them.[/quote] No. Censorship is never good. The very first amendment that the founding fathers made was to protect freedom of speech. There is a reason for that. Without it, people are open to manipulation. [quote] The Russian government has made it clear that their intention is to interfere in foreign elections to sow chaos. [/quote] So two claims without evidence supports this? Just ignore the leaked documents showing Obama interfering in Netenyahu's election, and Hillary saying we should have interfered in Pakistan's elections. Along with the United State's history of regime change, the US is the one meddling in foreign elections. [quote]We're going to see it again with Germany's upcoming election. [/quote] Germany has already retracted their claims. [quote]We have now seen the Republicans, their presidential nominee, and supporters of the party quite happy with foreign governments interfering in domestic elections.[/quote] Denying the existence of interference is nit being happy with foreign interference. There is quite a large difference anyone can see. [quote]This is highly problematic as we've now green lit domestic politicians to work with foreign governments possibly outside the confines of American law. [/quote] Politicians have been working with foreign governments for a long time. Look at Saudi Arabia and Qatar's investments into the Clinton Foundation. As well as McCain openly visiting rebels in Syria. [quote]I have Google'd the bill, but it is hard to sift through the hyperbolic articles with activist agendas citing George Orwell's 1984. [/quote] I provided the section of the bill for you, so that you can read it directly as the Congressmen intended it to be, without any interpretation from journalists. And one of the central themes of 1984 was how the government hid the truth, and made it so that any dissenters would be afraid of speaking out. There is definitely a clear similarity here, since they could make it so people have to fear the rest of the public, not necessarily the government, for speaking against the mainstream thought. [quote]I am sure some of the articles mean well while others just seek to discredit/undermine Obama/Democrats/Government[/quote] This bill was passed more so by Republicans than democrats.

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  • You will hear no argument from me that the United States has a long history of meddling in elections all over the world. This is a pretty indisputable fact. If you don't think Russia interfered in the election then nothing I can say will change your view as you have a partisan agenda to make sure that isn't the case. Russia has become increasingly bold with trying to influence foreign elections. What would you like to hear? That this isn't the case? This can be a problem if they are using funds and resources to illegally steal peoples private information or fund special interest groups. Censorship is something we always need to be careful with and I'd generally say is something to be careful with. There's a big difference between "I approve of censorship" and "We need to combat foreign meddling in elections for geopolitical gain"

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