[quote]I've posted plenty of rants that explain in great detail why I believe Islam is a dangerous religion. I'm not going to reiterate the same drawn out arguments I've made before, but feel free to search through my personal tag if you're wondering why I conclude that those that follow the Islamic doctrine should not be allowed to enter the country.[/quote]
Any belief, including atheism, when taken to extremes can be harmful.
[quote]However, I feel the same way about Christians. In fact, I feel that radicalized Christians are more destabilizing to the United States than those from Islam.
For one, Christians in America have been conducting terroristic attacks towards abortion doctors in the name of "Jesus" for decades now. Outright murdering doctors because they believe that they are "sinners," and need to be punished.[/quote]
As a practicing Christian, I also see this as a great harm. Christ never said to kill people who do not agree with you. Never said to persecute those who commit sin. In fact, He made it very clear that no one is without sin and that no one has the right to judge one another. He made it clear that we are to love one another and to treat others the way we want to be treated. There were no exceptions to this rule.
[quote]Sure, one might conclude that this is only a small segment that engage in violence and to a large extent I agree. I would say the violent wing of Christianity is smaller than the violent wing of Islam, but there is a large population in the United States that support these acts. They might not engage in the violence, but they whole heartily believe what these terrorists are doing is okay.[/quote]
That number might not be as big as you think. Many of us do not support these acts because they run contrary to what I stated above.
[quote]Beyond the terrorist wing, there is also an enormous segment of Christianity in America that wants to enact a theocracy, and even believes that America is not a secular nation, but a "Christian nation" founded on Christian laws. The threat of a Christian theocracy has been held back by the Constitution of the America which prohibits the creation of a state religion, and provides the freedom of every citizen to practice, and believe whatever crazy nonsense they want.[/quote]
Many of us support that freedom.
[quote]However, if we allow a large influx of radical Christians into this country, that want to force all of society to conform to their religion's laws America could theoretically turn into a Christian theocracy.[/quote]
Not likely.
[quote]Worse yet, the Christian wing in America was already for years pushing their agenda on society, and allowing more Christians into America would reinvigorate the insanity.
Christians too, typically advocate for no restrictions on the exploits of the environment, because they believe: "God gave us this land to exploit." In fact, they have no concerns about the planet because they literally believe that they're immortal, and this planet is nothing more than a play toy to humanity from their "God."[/quote]
I have a problem with this too. Yes I believe that God gave dominion of Earth to humanity, but Christ makes it clear that when one is entrusted with responsibility over resources, we are to use them wisely. The story of the three servants illustrates this point.
[quote]I've even heard some of the radical sects advocate for the denial of rights to homosexuals, and transsexual people. In the past, Christians advocated for interracial laws to be kept in place. I've heard Christian sects as well advocate for nuclear war because they believe it to be part of a prophecy that must come true before Jesus will return to Earth. Some even advocate for the death of homosexuals as they believe it is a "sin against god." Some even worse have killed homosexuals in the name of their religion.[/quote]
I can confidently tell you that Christ would not support this. Prophecies will come to pass in their own time. They do not need our help for them to be realized. Christ never advocated for the killing of people. He told us to worry about our own sins before worrying about the sins of others.
[quote]Christians also actively try to convert those in society to their religion, and some even go door to door knocking and asking if they're "heard the truth.[/quote]
There is nothing wrong with trying to spread belief as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
[quote]These Christians are also sometime found in public squares screaming at the top of their lungs about crazy nonsense.[/quote]
What better place to exercise freedom of speech?
[quote]Christians even want their religion taught in schools, in science classes, and they actually believe that their religion trumps scientific facts. They even want public schools to force all students to pray to their God.[/quote]
To a degree, I agree with teaching Christianity in schools as long as others are taught as well as a world religions course.
[quote]I advocate that the immigration laws only allow those from secular nations that do not identify themselves as Christian or Muslim into the country. Those from Sweden for example would be prime candidates to come into America. Those that identify themselves as Christians as too much of a threat to be allowed in. They're a threat not only to the freedom of our society, but to the wellbeing of our society.[/quote]
Fortunately our Constitution allows for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, etc. to be here. I will agree that extremists are a threat, but the majority are not.
English
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Good on you sir
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[quote][quote]I've posted plenty of rants that explain in great detail why I believe Islam is a dangerous religion. I'm not going to reiterate the same drawn out arguments I've made before, but feel free to search through my personal tag if you're wondering why I conclude that those that follow the Islamic doctrine should not be allowed to enter the country.[/quote] Any belief, including atheism, when taken to extremes can be harmful. [quote]However, I feel the same way about Christians. In fact, I feel that radicalized Christians are more destabilizing to the United States than those from Islam. For one, Christians in America have been conducting terroristic attacks towards abortion doctors in the name of "Jesus" for decades now. Outright murdering doctors because they believe that they are "sinners," and need to be punished.[/quote] As a practicing Christian, I also see this as a great harm. Christ never said to kill people who do not agree with you. Never said to persecute those who commit sin. In fact, He made it very clear that no one is without sin and that no one has the right to judge one another. He made it clear that we are to love one another and to treat others the way we want to be treated. There were no exceptions to this rule. [quote]Sure, one might conclude that this is only a small segment that engage in violence and to a large extent I agree. I would say the violent wing of Christianity is smaller than the violent wing of Islam, but there is a large population in the United States that support these acts. They might not engage in the violence, but they whole heartily believe what these terrorists are doing is okay.[/quote] That number might not be as big as you think. Many of us do not support these acts because they run contrary to what I stated above. [quote]Beyond the terrorist wing, there is also an enormous segment of Christianity in America that wants to enact a theocracy, and even believes that America is not a secular nation, but a "Christian nation" founded on Christian laws. The threat of a Christian theocracy has been held back by the Constitution of the America which prohibits the creation of a state religion, and provides the freedom of every citizen to practice, and believe whatever crazy nonsense they want.[/quote] Many of us support that freedom. [quote]However, if we allow a large influx of radical Christians into this country, that want to force all of society to conform to their religion's laws America could theoretically turn into a Christian theocracy.[/quote] Not likely. [quote]Worse yet, the Christian wing in America was already for years pushing their agenda on society, and allowing more Christians into America would reinvigorate the insanity. Christians too, typically advocate for no restrictions on the exploits of the environment, because they believe: "God gave us this land to exploit." In fact, they have no concerns about the planet because they literally believe that they're immortal, and this planet is nothing more than a play toy to humanity from their "God."[/quote] I have a problem with this too. Yes I believe that God gave dominion of Earth to humanity, but Christ makes it clear that when one is entrusted with responsibility over resources, we are to use them wisely. The story of the three servants illustrates this point. [quote]I've even heard some of the radical sects advocate for the denial of rights to homosexuals, and transsexual people. In the past, Christians advocated for interracial laws to be kept in place. I've heard Christian sects as well advocate for nuclear war because they believe it to be part of a prophecy that must come true before Jesus will return to Earth. Some even advocate for the death of homosexuals as they believe it is a "sin against god." Some even worse have killed homosexuals in the name of their religion.[/quote] I can confidently tell you that Christ would not support this. Prophecies will come to pass in their own time. They do not need our help for them to be realized. Christ never advocated for the killing of people. He told us to worry about our own sins before worrying about the sins of others. [quote]Christians also actively try to convert those in society to their religion, and some even go door to door knocking and asking if they're "heard the truth.[/quote] There is nothing wrong with trying to spread belief as long as it is done in a respectful manner. [quote]These Christians are also sometime found in public squares screaming at the top of their lungs about crazy nonsense.[/quote] What better place to exercise freedom of speech? [quote]Christians even want their religion taught in schools, in science classes, and they actually believe that their religion trumps scientific facts. They even want public schools to force all students to pray to their God.[/quote] To a degree, I agree with teaching Christianity in schools as long as others are taught as well as a world religions course. [quote]I advocate that the immigration laws only allow those from secular nations that do not identify themselves as Christian or Muslim into the country. Those from Sweden for example would be prime candidates to come into America. Those that identify themselves as Christians as too much of a threat to be allowed in. They're a threat not only to the freedom of our society, but to the wellbeing of our society.[/quote] Fortunately our Constitution allows for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, etc. to be here. I will agree that extremists are a threat, but the majority are not.[/quote] Bumpo
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Normally I see these long counters, and they usually say something weird, but this is pretty on-spot with the Christian faith and his arguments. Good on you!
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[quote]Any belief, including atheism, when taken to extremes can be harmful.[/quote] I believe that initiating force against a person or their property is immoral. This means that I am morally opposed to thievery, vandalism, murder, and sexual assault. This position is extreme, since I take it to its ultimate extension. Is this position harmful?
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To it's ultimate extension? Explain?
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Sure. The Non-Aggression Principle holds that it's immoral to initiate force against a person or their property. "Initiating force" means that you attempt to exert authority over someone or something that you have no true authority over. If you apply this principle consistently, then you must be morally opposed to a handful of things. Murder. Theft. Vandalism. Kidnapping. Assault. Oh, and taxation.
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Edited by Gladlin: 11/7/2016 5:55:42 PMThe only way I can see this taken to an extreme is if it was used to justify vigilante justice. Say that a terrorist shot up a school and was on the run and you just happen to find him/her. You know they they have initiated an act of violence that has resulted in the deaths of at least four people in the span of a few seconds. Would you call the police, or if you had a friend whose kid died in the attack, would you be so angry at this person that you would harm them in someway, possibly kill them before turning them over to the authorities? Edit: Not sure how taxation fits in with your example as it is generally understood that governments have the right to levy taxes.
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[quote]The only way I can see this taken to an extreme is if it was used to justify vigilante justice. Say that a terrorist shot up a school and was on the run and you just happen to find him/her. You know they they have initiated an act of violence that has resulted in the deaths of at least four people in the span of a few seconds. Would you call the police, or if you had a friend whose kid died in the attack, would you be so angry at this person that you would harm them in someway, possibly kill them before turning them over to the authorities?[/quote] Would it not be justified to kill them? Both justice and its miscarriage can occur with or without the state's permission.
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It would not be justified. This person has committed a crime not only against your friend, but against society as well. It is important that the judicial system be allowed to administer justice, otherwise we would live in a world ruled by the notion of retribution and revenge. This person should answer to society as a whole for what he/she did.
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[quote]It would not be justified. This person has committed a crime not only against your friend, but against society as well. It is important that the judicial system be allowed to administer justice, otherwise we would live in a world ruled by the notion of retribution and revenge. This person should answer to society as a whole for what he/she did.[/quote] This holds up only if we acknowledge "society" as a legitimate entity. The Non-Aggression Principle holds that we shouldn't, since this "society" is bound together by force. In a statist society, however, it isn't logically consistent to allow for vigilante justice.
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As it is generally accepted as legitimate, it holds.
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[quote]As it is generally accepted as legitimate, it holds.[/quote] Eh, something being widely accepted isn't grounds for its legitimacy.
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It does to the people who live under the rules of that government.
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[quote]It does to the people who live under the rules of that government.[/quote] Then those people aren't acting rationally.
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Why not?
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[quote]Why not?[/quote] Because a mere majority consensus doesn't establish truth or morality. If a group of slaves decides that they aren't slaves, their chains don't disappear. Their mindset changes.
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What is immoral about taxes?
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What is immoral about thievery?
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Thievery breaks a social contract between people whereas taxation fulfills one.
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[quote]Thievery breaks a social contract between people whereas taxation fulfills one.[/quote] Explain the social contract, then.
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Atheism is not a belief. It's the lack of one actually. Do you have a belief that Thor isn't real? No. That's not how beliefs you. Regardless, it's funny how many of you don't see the satire in my post.
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[quote]Atheism is not a belief. It's the lack of one actually. Do you have a belief that Thor isn't real? No. That's not how beliefs you. Regardless, it's funny how many of you don't see the satire in my post.[/quote] Atheism is totally a belief. You believe something doesn't exist. Yes there is satire in this post, but there is still your personal honesty within it.
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Satire is not always clear.
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[quote]Atheism is not a belief. It's the lack of one actually. Do you have a belief that Thor isn't real? No. That's not how beliefs you. Regardless, it's funny how many of you don't see the satire in my post.[/quote] You'll have to explain how this is relevant to what I said...
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I was responding to what you were responding to. Not directly responding to your response.