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originally posted in:The Enlightenment Act
10/2/2016 2:10:50 PM
17
Almost all correct. But, he doesn't activate SIVA his entire goal is to make sure Siva isn't activated.
Nukes the hell out of th guardians and sends constructs to slow them down. I'm assuming the constructs are similar to the drones that are all over the plaguelands repairing things, but militarized.
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Rasputin absolutely used SIVA to attack the iron lords. He unleashed it on them. Rasputin can control SIVA https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/214478618/0/0/1 And Rasputin sending SIVA off planet http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-old-russia-4?highlight=Russia
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I'm sorry, it just doesnt make sense to me. If Rasputin didn't want them to have access to SIVA why risk them being able to defeat it and use it? Especially if he has access to nuclear armaments and can make a robot army, something we've never heard of before this post? The reason? The lore team today had no part in the creation of the original lore that became the grimoire? Maybe...
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The best lore explanation I can give is that rasputin didn't have full network capabilities back then. The only evidence post collapse of rasputin using orbital weapons is cabal 2, which was only made possible because we raised the array in skywatch in the story mode, which allowed rasputin to link to the rest of the system. So back in the Iron Lord conflict, he may not have had access to those weapons. SIVA and Frames might be all he had at the time to defend himself. Which raises another problem, why didn't rasputin nuke the fallen in current time when try went digging for SIVA? Or why didn't he unleash aggressive SIVA on the fallen? I agree with you last statement, generally. Modern rasputin seems to be a different personality than the iron lords version. He seemed more capable back then than he is now, which is opposite of how it should be now that we expanded his network with the array....
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Just thought of a pretty big plot hole, I think. The fallen stole SIVA from a Clovis Bray facility on mars, from a pre collapse facility. If SIVA was outside of the replication center from "iron tomb" then it seems like the death of some 100 iron lords was just because of bad planning...
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So Mars is where the SIVA research was conducted, and there were some test mites there. But the replication chamber was built on earth and the full scale SIVA production. I don't think the fallen found SIVA on Mars. I believe they found records that showed the location of the SIVA replication chamber on earth, and they went and found SIVA there. Back in the days of the iron lords, the iron lords found the location of the replication chamber through accessing one of rasputins terminals in the cosmodrome.
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Well don't you just have all the answers.... [spoiler]thanks for all the answers[/spoiler]
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No problem. I try to help (without the overbearing lore expert attitude I've encountered sometimes)
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Solid reply. And I appreciate the willingness to acknowledge inconsistency in the story telling. A lot of the lore guys aren't willing to do that. *cough rezyl is dredgen *cough.
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Where did you find any evidence of nuclear use? And Rasputin doesn't care about SIVA beyond what it means to him. It's a tool, and one he'll use if needed as we saw in the cutscene. Yes, he wants to prevent others from using it, but only in the same way he prevents others from stealing any of his weapons and tools.
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I used "nuked" as hyperbole for bombed the hell out of them.
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Okay. Not to sound too argumentative, but when Rasputin actually does have a nuclear arsenal you can see how it can be confusing with what you meant. Yes, he threw a lot of various machines, weapons, and other defenses at them before finally resorting to SIVA, but he certainly also used SIVA intentionally as a weapon.
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So then did Siva take over Rasputin or is Rasputin just letting aksis and Siva use his bunker as a safe haven during the raid?
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SIVA can't really take over things on its own. It's a tool, not a consciousness. It's needs a mind to control it and Rasputin was the original mind when it was intended as a colonial mechanism during the Golden Age. After the Iron Lords destroyed the rest of his defenses trying to get to it though there really want much outside of the door itself stopping the next group from taking it. Aksis has fused entirely with SIVA and is the mind now controlling it since the Devils stole it from RAS.
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Was it not a sentient SIVA that took control of Jolders armor in the iron tomb?
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Edited by w3rdblader: 10/2/2016 5:07:00 PMOk, I read this entire expansion wrong. I thought the reason it was sealed away was because SIVA can become sentient if given enough resources to control/convert. Hence all the talk about "the fallen don't know how dangerous it is" "Siva could destroy everything" etc. Similar to how OWL was reporting the prototypes were controlling and changing the guardians infected by it.
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It seems it can become semi-sentient, but in a really roundabout way. It is not itself consciousness, and it's not like the Flood where once it hits a certain biomass it become sentient either. It needs a mind to control it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't also alter the mind that controls it. Aksis is that mind currently, but Aksis isn't the same as he once was. He has fused completely with it, so while his mind controls it, that mind is no longer Aksis if that makes any sense. Whether this is true with Rasputin when he controlled it is unknown. His mind is by design different than our and he was meant to be able to control it, but when Saladin mention he's no longer simply a Warmind it's possible SIVA has helped make him more.
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That cleared it up a ton. Clutch ad always saint
