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8/24/2016 1:57:03 AM
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All of Stannis's forces died attacking Winterfell. But he did secure/defeat the wildlings for Jon
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Edited by tjustie: 8/24/2016 2:07:52 AMDid he? I thought Jon only had the support of the wildlings and some of the weaker northern houses in The Battle Of The Bastards, along with the knights of the vale later in the battle. Maybe I'm just not remembering, but it doesn't make any sense to me that Stannis would have left part of his army behind with the Night's Watch while he went to attack Winterfell.
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Well the nights watch was pretty much about to give out from the siege of the wildlings. Stannis answered Jon's plea for help and broke their siege with the Calvary charge and took most of the wildlings prisoner.
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Oh, you were talking about that part. That's true I guess, that Stannis helped defend Castle Black. I think my initial impression was that Jon and Mance may have been able to reach an agreement anyways considering Jon's later actions with the wildlings, but I suppose Jon wasn't Lord Commander at the time, so he wouldn't have necessarily had the authority to be able to make that agreement regardless of the other Night's Watch members' feelings on the matter. I guess that one action of defeating the wildlings possibly had more weight to it than I thought it did.
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Thought Jon was being sent to assassinate Mance to break the spirit of the wildlings since he held them together. Stannis is also the reason Ned Stark died?
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He was, but Mance truly did want to negotiate peace, and Jon also wanted peace later, so that's why I said what I did. I was more talking about the impact of Stannis himself, and although you could say Stannis was indirectly the cause of Ned's death, I think Ned doomed himself out of his sense of honor. Had he not first told Cersei of his knowledge of Joffery and Stannis and instead just alerted Stannis, he might still be alive. His death was his own fault in the end.
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Jon wasn't lord commander and considered a turncloak by his brothers His redemption was assassinating Mance. I meant Renly gave him the chance to support his claim and take the throne from the Lannisters right then and there, but since he was honor bound he went with Stannis since he was the eldest. [spoiler]also Stannis killing Renly[/spoiler]
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Edited by tjustie: 8/24/2016 3:20:54 AMHe didn't so much assassinate Mance as give him a merciful death rather than burning alive. Jon's redemption was when he went to kill the traitors and his actions as a whole during the battle of Castle Black. I don't think killing Mance had anything to do with his redemption (unless you meant when he went to talk with/assassinate Mance?). You're right about Stannis though. He did have a bigger impact than I remembered. I think I was just too disgruntled with the season 5 finale and how rushed Stannis' ending seemed to actually think about it.
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Ah you didn't read the books [spoiler]it was the Lord of Bones[/spoiler] But yeah I meant when he was sent to assassinate him in the camps and as he was, Stannis showed up and broke them so Jon wasn't killed on the spot. Stannis ended pretty tragic but was not without cause. [spoiler]He sacrificed his daughter, which caused him to lose his wife to suicide and his most faithful supporter(Onion Knight). Nobody wanted him on the throne and one of the Karstarks was already set to betray him in the battle [/spoiler]
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Yeah, I'm just talking about the show. Apparently the show has diverged from the books a pretty good amount at this point in a few ways. I would like to read the books at some point though. It wasn't so much Stannis' end that annoyed me, just the way it was done. The whole season 5 finale just felt hastily put together to me, like they were trying to cram too many plot line endings into one episode. Stannis didn't even get 10 minutes of screen time before he died, and the battle wasn't shown at all, just the aftermath with him pitifully leaning against a tree, which just irked me a little for how important that battle was to his story.
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That's pretty much how it happened in the books You'll see more of it in season 6 with someone who was there though
