*Salute* Yeah, I mean anyone who just says "no" to the whole thing without any kind of explanation or willingness to discuss it I would think warrants being ignored, honestly. This will keep going until we manage to reach the end of it, for sure. Despite the nay sayers there are still plenty of folks who support the project and they have just as much say in things as anyone else, whether the haters like it or not.

Really? So anyone who disagrees with this should be ignored if you don't like the "reasons"? I'm sure you wont respond...because you didnt last time I pointed this out. But...Do you have any concept of how you convey your messages and how they may be interpreted by the reader? You know, the ones you're trying to convince? How can you possibly lend any credibility to this community endeavor? Let's recap. Cozmo said no communication with Devs. No communication with the Executives.. as you have so indicated IF he failed to deliver on this... there would be a PR disaster. No authority to speak on behalf of anyone else here. Not above the rest who Bungie looks to for feedback...including, streamers, youtubers, reddit or bungie.net And lets not forget...you could care less about anyone else outside the feedback community to even let them know how they would be effected by this. No interest at all from you to inform anyone else. And now....just...just ignore those naysayers? Good grief.

Good grief is right... [quote]Really? So anyone who disagrees with this should be ignored if you don't like the "reasons"?[/quote] What the hell did I just get done saying? [quote]Yeah, I mean [u][b]anyone who just says "no" to the whole thing without any kind of explanation or willingness to discuss it[/b][/u] I would think warrants being ignored, honestly.[/quote] Maybe try reading what is said? I dunno... [quote]Let's recap. Cozmo said no communication with Devs. No communication with the Executives.. as you have so indicated IF he failed to deliver on this... there would be a PR disaster.[/quote] Yes, let's recap, because you apparently need one. Cozmo said, and I quote (Because I actually bother to support the things I say): [quote]This theoretical council would not be given special treatment like [u][b]behind the scenes info[/b][/u], or [u][b]trips to the studio[/b][/u]. They would be granted access to a private forum to present the feedback they gather and believe represents the communities interests. Their feedback [b]would not be considered more important, or the only feedback [u]we consider[/u].[/b] It would be an [u][b]additional way for the community to share their ideas with the developers[/b][/u].[/quote] There, I even underlined the bits for you to make it easier. Now, what was it that you said? [b]1: Cozmo said no communication with Devs.[/b] He literally says the total opposite, lol And even if that were the case? There is nothing written in stone anywhere that we can't push to do that. The Council isn't even out of its rough draft stages. [b]2: No communication with the Executives[/b] The word "executives" wasn't even mentioned by him. =P And quote literally anything can happen on their end. For all we know the Council could put something forward from the Community and Pete Parsons decides to show up for it himself. Who knows. [b]3: No authority to speak on behalf of anyone else here.[/b] People speak on behalf of others all the damn time. I've explained this multiple times, what do you think feedback is about? Do you speak on my behalf? Hell no, obviously. But that doesn't change the fact that if you make some post about wanting such and such and it actually happens it would end up effecting millions of people, regardless of whether or not they even knew you existed in the first place. By your own logic, what you said would mean no one should ever give feedback about anything. Ever. [quote]as you have so indicated IF he failed to deliver on this... there would be a PR disaster. [/quote] Common sense? If you tell everyone you support something but then decide to suddenly re-neg on it, what is it you expect to have happen? [quote]Not above the rest who Bungie looks to for feedback...including, streamers, youtubers, reddit or bungie.net[/quote] Like Cozmo said: [b]"It would be an [u][b]additional way for the community to share their ideas with the developers[/b][/u]."[/b] It WOULD be different from how things are now. It WOULD be different from Youtube and Streamers. The ways in which it is different are what are most important about it and is likewise why someone would want it. It challenges the current system. [quote]And lets not forget...you could care less about anyone else outside the feedback community to even let them know how they would be effected by this. No interest at all from you to inform anyone else.[/quote] You mean when I said Bungie would be needed for that? Or is me making a single post about it in different forums what you consider to be "good enough" for something like that? =P In case you didn't catch it that time, no, it wouldn't be good enough. The only meaningful way to get the word out about this would be to make mention of it in the Weekly Update and or get other media outlets to do their own news articles about it. And at this point, the rough draft for the Council has barely started to be discussed. If you want to try making post after post after post in every single forum on B.net or all across Reddit? PMing every single Destiny Clan? Contacting every single Destiny Player in the game who still plays? Sending out E-mails to all those who have Destiny Accounts in general on top of it to make sure you don't miss anyone? By all means, I encourage you to get involved. ^_^ (Its easy to be the one making demands when you aren't the one doing any of the actual work.) [quote]And now....just...just ignore those naysayers?[/quote] Put it this way. You're with the DTC, I assume? How do you typically treat someone that says "this is horrible, you need to stop doing this"? Better question. What do you do when its the same people saying the same exact thing over and over again? I think we both know the answer to that. [quote]I'm sure you wont respond...because you didnt last time I pointed this out.[/quote] I actually did. This was my response to you: [quote][quote]In terms of the council in general which you have noted as operated and controlled by the community. Will the council be including all the rest of the Bungie forum community users or just be having debates for the feedback community's ideas? Are you having separate discussions with users in each forum now so they are aware of what you are proposing on their behalf?[/quote] I don't see the Feedback section as being its own Community. The Community encompasses everyone involved with or has an interest in Destiny. Bungie.net is the OFFICIAL Destiny Forums. Obviously, anyone is allowed to participate so long as they have a Bungie.net Account linked to a Game Account. (Which requires you to have purchased the game at some point) If people in the Community aren't interested in or actively apart of the things being discussed in Feedback, then that is their decision. To put it another way, Joey can make a totally anonymous post in feedback asking for such and such to be nerfed. If Bungie actually nerfs said things, then Joey's totally random post just impacted potential millions of people who could most likely be outraged at the change and had no idea about said post ever existing. Does Joey announce to the entire world that he just made a post in feedback? No. But that ignorance is their choice. They don't care enough to bother with the Feedback section, most people will just spend each day playing the game completely uncaring about anything that could be getting discussed here that could possibly effect their gameplay experience at the drop of a hat. So it boils down to this: There are two types of people; those who care and those who don't. Now, personally I would like once we get further down the road in this, if Cozmo could put something about this in the Weekly Update, because that's really the only way to ensure it receives proper attention like what you're saying. Hopefully that's something we can make happen once we get the Council better fleshed out.[/quote] If you're referring to me choosing to remain silent after the fact in there its because I felt as though you were ignoring the things that were said. I respectfully held my tongue and politely said have a good day, as you had said to me prior. Sorry that you feel offended by me wishing you a good day? That whole thing you talk about with how others can view something said differently is a two-way street. Perhaps that is something you should take into consideration for yourself as well. Just some friendly advice. I've got a few more things to do then I'm going to be off for the next couple of days. So if you have any further questions or comments about anything, I won't be able to respond until I'm back.

I did read your post that is why I responded. I don't like that you don't want to include all of Bungie forums while building your plan, and I still think it's wrong not to. And for you to specifically ignore people who have an opinion on this just because you don't like their answer only makes this look more elitist. It's your plan, you should be doing everything. Not expecting Bungie to put it in the weekly or sending out notices on your behalf. Also, I just reread Cozmo's post again and I read it differently than how you are presenting it. Because of 1 point you are not considering. If Cozmo says any council's feedback will be treated no differently than any other, why would he then say your council would have access to the Developers? He didn't because its contradictory. He said any feedback your council generates would just be another bunch of feedback the developers would look at. Just like the forums, reddit, streamers etc. I'm not sure how you see that as special access to the developers. He stated no special treatment would be granted for your council. So, my concerns are still valid. Your plan to date is labor intensive, not exclusive, open to voting fraud and will have absolutely no authority over any other feedback Bungie reviews. Your council will appear to have a voice over everyone when it likely will not. It will give false hope to others who will look to it as a means to make changes in this game that are in their favor when it may not. Still not supporting.

[quote]I did read your post that is why I responded. I don't like that you don't want to include all of Bungie forums while building your plan, and I still think it's wrong not to.[/quote] Wha...? You...really need to stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say that I didn't "WANT" to include all the other forums? Are you getting confused? I'll happily respond to the rest of your comment after we sort this out.

I am not confused. I am concerned that you are resistant to posting your proposal on each forum, only on Feedback. I think you are making a major assumption that if people don't come here they must be ignorant by choice and don't care about how something like this may or may not effect them. I think that is an unfair analysis of this community and wrong. You said: [b]I don't see the Feedback section as being its own Community. The Community encompasses everyone involved with or has an interest in Destiny. Bungie.net is the OFFICIAL Destiny Forums. Obviously, anyone is allowed to participate so long as they have a Bungie.net Account linked to a Game Account. (Which requires you to have purchased the game at some point)[/b] [u][b]If people in the Community aren't interested in or actively apart of the things being discussed in Feedback, then that is their decision.[/b][/u] [b]But that ignorance is their choice. They don't care enough to bother with the Feedback section, most people will just spend each day playing the game completely uncaring about anything that could be getting discussed here that could possibly effect their gameplay experience at the drop of a hat. So it boils down to this: There are two types of people; those who care and those who don't.[/b] Not all people come to the Bungie website and go directly to feedback. And because of that, doesn't mean they don't care. Some stay in entirely different forums. You further state below that you want Bungie to spread this word for you. So then you must agree that all forums or its members should be informed. So, my position is, this is your idea, you should be doing that by posting your ideas on all the forums yourself. [u][b]Now, personally I would like once we get further down the road in this, if Cozmo could put something about this in the Weekly Update, because that's really the only way to ensure it receives proper attention like what you're saying. Hopefully that's something we can make happen once we get the Council better fleshed out. [/b][/u] And as negative as you view my responses to you. I am giving you feedback that may or may not support your proposition for your council. If you feel so strongly about it. Go out beyond here and get other members educated so they can also provide their feedback on it. If it's supposed to be for the community, then reach out to the whole community.

When and where did Cozmo say there would be no commication with the devs? I would like to see that for myself. If thats true then what would be the point of a Council? It would be nothing more than another forum post for the devs to ignore since they have no interest in communication. Waste of effort in my opinion. Probably would be better off making a website of sorts for this kind of thing.

On his last scope of "rules". Cozmo responded to.

Thank you

You are very welcome☺