No normal posts are the same. Ideas have to be summited to the GC with a forum (formatted post). Then only the GC gets to decide if they "like it" and pass it to bungie. It adds a corrupted layer to feedback to filter it to only what those on the GC want. Also let's face it the top few will take it over and turn the game into a COD/halo knock off with. Just a bad idea with no way to keep it fair for all players.

[quote]Then only the GC gets to decide if they "like it" and pass it to bungie. [/quote] You sir, need to go re-read some things. Care to provide the link to where that's said? I would love to see it considering I'm the one who has been writing these posts. =P

Come in when Handling the paper work. The GC can't forward all ideas. At some point choices have to be made. The GC will pick what they view as the best ideas summited. In your case it's a revert to the exclusion and elitism people experienced in y1.

It was my understanding the GC acted on what the majority of the player base was in favor for, and I distinctly remember Cozmo stating regular forum feedback, posting, ideas and communication with Cozmo would all remain just as it is, the GC would only be in place to assist in streamlining subjects the majority of the community is in favor of - not the GC, they in essence would merely be another [i]tool[/i] for us.

[quote]It was my understanding the GC acted on what the majority of the player base was in favor for, and I distinctly remember Cozmo stating regular forum feedback, posting, ideas and communication with Cozmo would all remain just as it is, the GC would only be in place to assist in streamlining subjects the majority of the community is in favor of - not the GC, they in essence would merely be another [i]tool[/i] for us.[/quote] The GC gets private forums for talks to bungie. If the GC is viewed as "the majority wants this" then bungie will start look at them over others. Why? Time saver. The GC done did the work. Go to them pick up the ideas the GC clams every one wants. Untill you take into account it's easy to up vote and sway polls with fake accounts and streamers telling people to vote for this and that. Most followers do what ever they are told in hopes of say for example getting carried to the lighthouse. The rest of us may still get to talk to Cosmo but the GC gets to by pass him and talk directly with the devs, in private forums away from public view. If they just pass ideas why do we need them? Same can be accomplished by bungie taking a suggestion and making a pinned topic for discussion. Same thing with out the middle men to "guide" the discussion. The public gets to see every thing and bungie gets feedback. A "[b]tool[/b]" as you put it can be used in many ways other than what it was intended for. Depends on who has there hands on the tool at any given moment.

[quote]Most followers do what ever they are told[/quote] That's a whole other kettle of fish. That's more of a problem with society itself. I want to have more faith in this Community, and am choosing to do so. Will my faith be justified and validated? Only time will tell. [quote]The rest of us may still get to talk to Cosmo but the GC gets to by pass him and talk directly with the devs, in private forums away from public view.[/quote] That's assuming said forum is made private. You need to bare in mind, said privacy was included for the sake of Bungie so as to make the situation more amicable for them. Its quite obvious these guys don't like talking in view of the public unless they go off of some script. However, regardless of that, the Council would still relay the results of said discussions back to the Community. [quote]If they just pass ideas why do we need them? Same can be accomplished by bungie taking a suggestion and making a pinned topic for discussion.[/quote] So you want Bungie to be the ones representing the Community instead? O_o You would rather Bungie get to dictate what should or shouldn't be a topic for discussion? I have to disagree with that. For a number of reasons which I've already detailed for someone else: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/209244938?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1 [b]The Community should be the ones to decide what needs to be discussed. Period.[/b] And the difference between the current setup to what the Council would be providing is a means of KEEPING THE CONVERSATION GOING. It wouldn't be the same as how it is now where you put forth feedback, someone says "Good stuff" and then that's the end of it. No. The Council would put forth the feedback and say "let's make this happen." If Bungie has an issue with making that happen? They need to explain why. The Council then takes their explanation and gives that back to the Community to discuss. Then the Community submits a response which the Council takes back to Bungie. [u][b]THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL BOTH SIDES HAVE REACHED A MUTUAL ACCORD.[/b][/u] You don't get to just walk away from this kind of thing. One-liners are not acceptable. The Council is being established to create a two-way conversation between the Community and Bungie in a civilized, non-hostile environment. What kind of PR disaster could you expect from the Council putting forth feedback and Bungie just being like "Yeah, we don't care about that"? That's the power the Council presents, the ability to put pressure on the company. That is why companies all throughout history have been opposed to things like Worker Unions or civilians becoming organized. THE LITTLE PEOPLE ALWAYS OUTNUMBER THE BIG BOYS SITTING AT THE TOP. Corporations absolutely HATE the idea of commoners banding together, there is plenty of historical evidence to prove that fact. But without a Council? Without something that the people can rally around, we're all just nameless strangers on the internet. Its far easier for us to be dealt with and handled when we're disorganized like we are now. [quote]A "tool" as you put it can be used in many ways other than what it was intended for. Depends on who has there hands on the tool at any given moment.[/quote] Depends on how you create said tool. A shovel and a gun are both tools, but both are limited by their design. A gun can't be used to tend a garden, just as a shovel can't be used to kill countless people in an instant. You can try and use a shovel as a weapon, but using it as one and it actually BEING one are two totally different things, especially when compared to a real weapon. [b]"A tool cannot exceed its capabilities."[/b]

Wow. Can you smell the indoctrination in the air? That's why I don't like most collages. You want to unionize the player base. Put presser on bungie to make the change or else. We going to strike. That's a bad example. Unions control there members with fear. Use there power to force political and social change even against the majority. When the unions tell you to do something you do it or you lose your job. They hold companies hostage, refuse to negotiate in any terms but there own. If the company won't meet there demands they destroy them with protest. At one point long ago they was needed. Less so now. In today's age companies can't hide stuff as easy. I have been at a few jobs where a union has tried to move in. Any one who did not support them was harassed and bullied to the point of fear or quoting there job. Remember unions was created by the mobsters to extort money from workers. This is not what the GC needs to be but what your after. A way to force bungie to "do what I want or eles". It's bungie's game. You only have the right to play it. Bungie is under no obligation to do or not do any idea you or any one comes up with. If they like it and it's do able they do it. Trying to force them into a corner and force change never ends up good. There are copy right laws logistics, time frames, money, and partnerships all go into the mix. Most times companies are bared from talking about most of it with the public by contracts and NDAs. The more you try and force on bungie the more your going to cost the community.

[quote]That's a bad example. Unions control there members with fear.[/quote] Wha? Have you ever been apart of one? Cause I have. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that its WRONG for people to band together???? O_o Holy crap... [quote]Use there power to force political and social change even against the majority. When the unions tell you to do something you do it or you lose your job. They hold companies hostage, refuse to negotiate in any terms but there own. If the company won't meet there demands they destroy them with protest.[/quote] Seriously? -_- Its no wonder why we clash. [quote]At one point long ago they was needed. Less so now. In today's age companies can't hide stuff as easy.[/quote] Are you kidding me? Waiters/Waitresses being denied tips. Companies cutting corners. Next to no job security what-so-ever. Employers being racist/sexist. Harsh working conditions. This shit has only gotten worse, dude. You would need to be blind and living under a rock to be so utterly oblivious of how screwed up the world is. The people who deny such either have never had to struggle with today's job market or its a case of "they already got their's and screw everyone else" mentality. Ugh... Do yourself a favor and avoid trying to bring real life matters into this. Trust me, it won't help you at all in this situation. Better off sticking to the confines of Destiny/Bungie. [quote]I have been at a few jobs where a union has tried to move in. Any one who did not support them was harassed and bullied to the point of fear or quoting there job. Remember unions was created by the mobsters to extort money from workers.[/quote] In this exact same paragraph you first start off by saying that they were needed, that they did good. Then you go on to condemn them. I have ZERO reason to believe ANYTHING that you have to say about your personal experience. And even if that was the case? Unions exist to serve the people they represent, meaning said unions can be changed by the people apart of it as well if they are doing wrong. That is the point. Also, mobsters? No. Here: http://www.history.com/topics/labor Learn yourself something. [quote]This is not what the GC needs to be but what your after. A way to force bungie to "do what I want or eles".[/quote] As I've already said: [b]"If Bungie has an issue with making that happen? They need to explain why. The Council then takes their explanation and gives that back to the Community to discuss. Then the Community submits a response which the Council takes back to Bungie. [u]THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL BOTH SIDES HAVE REACHED A MUTUAL ACCORD[/u]."[/b] In case you're still confused, read this: https://www.reference.com/business-finance/definition-mutual-agreement-76fd85be5157f31c# [quote]It's bungie's game.[/quote] Yeah, so mind your own business and let THEM (Bungie) speak for themselves instead of acting like you're Pete Parsons. =P [quote]There are copy right laws logistics, time frames, money, and partnerships all go into the mix. Most times companies are bared from talking about most of it with the public by contracts and NDAs.[/quote] All of this means absolutely nothing. Copyright Laws was silly of you to mention. Logistics and Time Frames can be factored into the equation, all this means is that changes would take a while to make. Money and Partnerships are irrelevant, the Council is non-profit. NDAs prevent you from giving details about confidential information, they do not prevent you from having a discussion. The most that would result in would be Bungie saying "Sorry, we're not allowed to give out any information about such and such." That doesn't impede the Council in the slightest and you can just as easily have a conversation work around it. [quote]The more you try and force on bungie the more your going to cost the community.[/quote] Care to elaborate how?

Here we go again guy. Same stunts. Repeated. Twist every thing. No wonder bungie don't want to talk to you Simple is better. [quote]Wha? Have you ever been apart of one? Cause I have. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that its WRONG for people to band together???? O_o Holy crap...[/quote] Yes been a member. Watched them (the union) bend the company over the table till it shut down. Left people out of work. Union leaders then disappeared like a fart in the wind. [quote]Seriously? -_- Its no wonder why we clash.[/quote] Sorry I'm not socialist. I guess. [quote]Are you kidding me? Waiters/Waitresses being denied tips. Companies cutting corners. Next to no job security what-so-ever. Employers being racist/sexist. Harsh working conditions. This shit has only gotten worse, dude. You would need to be blind and living under a rock to be so utterly oblivious of how screwed up the world is. The people who deny such either have never had to struggle with today's job market or its a case of "they already got their's and screw everyone else" mentality. Ugh... Do yourself a favor and avoid trying to bring real life matters into this. Trust me, it won't help you at all in this situation. Better off sticking to the confines of Destiny/Bungie.[/quote] I'm sorry you needed some one to force a company to keep you on the payroll. The best jobs I had were union free. And I was begged not to leave when I felt I wanted a change. [quote]In this exact same paragraph you first start off by saying that they were needed, that they did good. Then you go on to condemn them. I have ZERO reason to believe ANYTHING that you have to say about your personal experience. And even if that was the case? Unions exist to serve the people they represent, meaning said unions can be changed by the people apart of it as well if they are doing wrong. That is the point.[/quote] LONG AGO they was useful. TODAY there are a lobbyist group who sell there support to the side that promise them more control. [quote]As I've already said: [b]"If Bungie has an issue with making that happen? They need to explain why. The Council then takes their explanation and gives that back to the Community to discuss. Then the Community submits a response which the Council takes back to Bungie. [u]THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL BOTH SIDES HAVE REACHED A MUTUAL ACCORD[/u]."[/b] In case you're still confused, read this: https://www.reference.com/business-finance/definition-mutual-agreement-76fd85be5157f31c#[/quote] Bungie can't explain to you every little thing. Take to much time and money. And let's face it this community don't know when to drop it (year 1 ring a bell). It's ok your bash bungie over and over with the same idea all the while screaming "bungie don't care" every time they turn it down. [quote]Yeah, so mind your own business and let THEM (Bungie) speak for themselves instead of acting like you're Pete Parsons. =P[/quote] Same thing could be said about you. :-) [quote]All of this means absolutely nothing.[/quote] To you. For lawyers it means millions. :-) [quote]Copyright Laws was silly of you to mention.[/quote] Can't copy ideas (or code) from other games with out permission. [quote]Logistics and Time Frames can be factored into the equation, all this means is that changes would take a while to make.[/quote] And if they don't have the time and money to work on your idea while making future content they are contracted to do for activision? That's right you don't care you want it right? [quote]Money and Partnerships are irrelevant, the Council is non-profit.[/quote] Ha ha. You really thought that was for you. Your smart. Nice way of slipping that it. You know bungie has to make deals with a lot of people. Right don't matter you you. It's "MAKE IT HAPPEN" no skin off your teeth right. [quote]NDAs prevent you from giving details about confidential information, they do not prevent you from having a discussion. The most that would result in would be Bungie saying "Sorry, we're not allowed to give out any information about such and such." That doesn't impede the Council in the slightest and you can just as easily have a conversation work around it.[/quote] Yea not quite. Every thing not released (for the most part) is covered by a NDA. Very little can be talked about without giving the GC access to stuff covered by the NDA. Wate you said "no special treatment". The GC being given info not available to the public is "special treatment". Your smart. Bet you already knew that. Nice way to beat around the bush. [quote]Care to elaborate how?[/quote] Do you really need this explained? Your smart. Your not doing any thing others have not already done to force a company to do what you want. Break them down and protest everything till they give into your demands. You just need a catalyst. Scream change and people will follow, when you can't deliver blame it on the other guy. I'm sorry you don't like the game. Many others do.

[quote]No normal posts are the same. Ideas have to be summited to the GC with a forum (formatted post). Then only the GC gets to decide if they "like it" and pass it to bungie.[/quote] Please tell me when you read words do you twist them in your head intentionally or do you do it natural and just end up reading it like that because that is not what was even purposed... ever if you want the Guardian council to look through what you have and bring it to Cozmo as well then you must tag it with #gcouncil you dont have to submit it to them but if you want their help then you do because how else are they going to tell that you need their assistance and the council is not bias so they decide nothing other than whether or not that said post was liked by the community and I would imagine that if you disagree with one of their decision you could simply bring it up with them seeming that you can also impeach them if you believe that they are not adequate for their position of course that is somewhat the current plan and is up to possible changes by the community and approved by the community [quote] Also let's face it the top few will take it over and turn the game into a COD/halo knock off with[/quote] how much power do you think the council will have? because not only is it so far established that they will not have an opinion of their own but also they will not have greater say than the rest of the community so if they say they want a COD knock off and everyone else says they dont want a COD knock off then we wont get a COD knock off seriously do you even read these posts or do you just skim them and start spreading negative crap about them