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6/30/2016 2:46:00 PM
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I agree. Basically the metric of k/d is wrong and if anyone knows stats it's that you can skew the same stats a million different ways. So basically the only nerfing or buffing should be based on a more detailed approach. Just because a hunter has more attributes of a "typical" fps character doesn't mean it doesn't take an immense amount of talent/skill to use the tools given to counteract, what I would consider to be, easier characters to play. What I mean to say is that Warlocks and Titans are inherently easier characters to assimilate into from an fps standpoint. Let's breakdown some of the tools each character has at their disposal, which Bungie has meticulously chosen to be the standard for each of those characters (grenades, melee and super) I won't be listing all for each category. Warlocks grenades are by far the most powerful in my opinion. Axion bolt can not only track enemies for a long period of time, but it can split into 2 and track. Now the warlock gets hit markers so those enemies hiding around corners are basically sitting ducks, and those who are getting traced are essentially abandoning their post and running to avoid the powerful hit and subsequent shots from the warlock. No other grenade boasts this type of ability and it's way too powerful. Also a close second is the firebolt which is almost the same only you get hit too quick if you're within striking distance and it can also split into multiple targets. Scatter grenades are just as bad and can kill with just one grenade and it doesn't have to stick because it also TRACKS ENEMIES. Titans have the lightning and magnetic grenades. Lightning lasts a long time and also has an absurd range. how can anyone work around this ? They can't and thus the heavily charging titan with a shoulder charge can easily crush any hunter who is the victim of the grenade. Also Magnetic grenades explode twice and are allowed to stick to enemies. Hunters just had their only sticking grenade removed. Hunters have tripmine, skip and arcbolt. None of which at this stage in the game can do anything more than barely harm the enemy targeted. Arcbolt is as close to firebolt but definitely not as powerful because the subclass it's attached to doesn't have self resurrect or a flame shield upon melee. the tripmine has just received a huge nerf not allowing it to stick to enemies and less damage. and skip grenade again does decent damage but also attached to a subclass that doesn't have the same perks as the opponents class of the same style grenade. Now moving to melees Warlocks again take the cake. If you're a sunsinger you get an instant 100% overshield upon impact, plus you have a firebolt grenade and instant Resurrection so even if you lose the 1v1 you can come back and kill that enemy easily because they are most likely at 1% health. Also energy drain is just over powered. Kills enemy health and shortens cool down of grenade. a deadly combo. Scorch burns and now burns plus adds the recipient susceptible to 5% outside damage during burn. basically rendering that player dead Titans have the shoulder charge which apparently just kills in one shot against 100% health. and then they can hit you with any of their powerful melees: disintegrate, storm fist, and sunstrike. They are a freighttrain up close and no hunter can even think of out doing a 1v1 from close range with this enemy. So hunters keep distance Hunters have a knife, smoke and blink strike. Blink strike essentially just gives you greater lunge ability but brings you closer to a more powerful melee opponent. More than likely you're dead if you don't kill the enemy with the strike. Smoke either makes you invisible or barely stops charging titans or blinking warlocks. and knife is the only solace and counter that a hunter has and Bungie has nerfed the damage by 10% making it nearly useless to escape more powerful opponent melees. No replenishes, no overshields, no drains, and no area of effect damage. Hunters again are inherently at a disadvantage. Supers Again warlocks are crushing. The nova bomb has a helmet that allows instant replenish of the super bar upon killing enemies which it does with ease. The nova bomb has crazy range and AOE damage AND FURTHERMORE you can't begin to kill a warlock upon activation unless that warlock is at 1% because activating the super makes the warlock unstoppable and unaffected by bullets. Also they can resurrect with sunsingers and are the most powerful Sith when they are stormcallers. The stormcaller super is the most powerful. They are floating lightning that lasts forever and easily kill opponents while taking minimal damage. Titans can't be killed and have helmets to further assist taking 0 damage when activating fist of havok. the range as well is devastating because you can be airborne and the ground pound fist takes out airborne enemies. The bubble shield has perks and instant defense against anything and can barely be taking down by gun fire unless it's rocket based or a TWO, YES TWO, GOLDEN GUN SHOTS. Insane. And the hammer of thor lasts way too long and has now gotten more range and power which is unnecessary hunters? oh they get golden gun which doesn't give them more defense, in fact you're a beam of light and will take all the fire from enemies and die quickly, plus the burn rate to 0 on the golden has been increased. you activate it takes a split second so everyone knows what's coming and then you're the human torch running around drawing fire. And the auto aim on the titan hammer super is so heavy and the hunters is so precise it makes it barely a super. The bladedancer has decent power because you're harder to kill with jagged movements but I've taken out more bladedancers than any other arc based super upon activation. And for reasons I've stated before a hunter up close is basically a dead hunter if you don't kill the opponent with the bladedancer hit. And the nightstalker is worthless in my opinion because it's a decent damage and holds enemies but it doesn't always kill all enemies in the area you have to still shoot the trapped ones and they can shoot you back. No other super allows enemies to be trapped and still fire back at the opponent. Plus it's attached a far inferior subclass. I could go on and I've probably rambled enough but seriously penalizing the perks and builds of hunters because those players who choose to play as hunters have a greater k/d makes no sense. The play style of a hunter is vastly different than those of warlocks and titans as per the reasons I've pointed out above. Hunters have to steer clear of close encounters. They can't charge into battle. That's why they die less. They stay far away and probably get easier kills because they aren't able to charge into battle so their usage of guns is more precise. giving them more kills and assisting their up close and personal teammates of titans warlocks. If I see a 1v1 melee battle i'm throwing fire from a distant at to help my teammate; probably taking kills in the process but those kills were easier to get because I'm not taking the up close damage. I'm simply peppering fire. I want to know how many hunters use pulse rifles, scout rifles and hand cannons and snipers. I also want to know how many warlocks and titans use shotguns and autorifles. That should be your metric bungie NOT K/D. It's absurd that this nerf is taking place. I hope it's immediately reversed.
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  • Biased post is extremely biased. Go home

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  • Trolling is trolling. Go back to your cave. If you can't discuss and have nothing to offer why even post? Such a waste. But thanks for the laugh

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  • I would discuss with you each classes strengths and weaknesses, but you would maintain your bias and would still continue to whine and bitch about how your class has "been nerfed the most" or "is super under powered." Do you not remember year one? It was nothing but bladedancers.

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  • Not true but if you're unwilling then you don't have the information to discuss

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  • There are too many "ifs" with unwilling. Maybe I'm tired. Maybe my attempts to educate you are futile. If you are willing to listen, I am willing to talk.

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  • Troll thank you and good bye

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  • Well if you don't want to listen, I won't force you, but please actually test something before making such bold statements. It will come back to bite you.

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  • I respect you're point yet ironically enough you're point is skewed in favor of the Hunter because ( I assume you play hunter in pvp quite a bit ) you play Hunter a lot then you're more privy to it's weaknesses because you're familiar with the class. Any one can post the same post you did but put titan or warlock in place of hunter and list their weaknesses and get the same argument. I'm sorry to say but EVERY class has their weaknesses and EVERY class has strengths and no amount of pointing out our arguing is going to make bungie take back the adjustments. Be happy you got some buffs rather then all nerfs which could've also happend. It could've been worse, Hunters still fare competitively just watch True Vanguard or most competitive youtubers. Hell almost all the best players played Hunter because it was and still is the best PVP class the proof is in the high level population. Guardians ggs.com can prove it. P.S. I'm not trying to harp on you and you got some well presented arguments : )

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  • Of course my answer is from a Hunter standpoint. Totally understood and what I prefaced my entire statement was with "anyone can skew the same stats in a million ways" of course we could detail the warlock bias or titan, but inherently there are traits that Bungie gave each class of characters. The only way it seems fair is to make each ability have the same damage such as all melees have a base damage and nothing more. But the way the melee hits can play to strategy in play style. Warlocks shouldn't get an OS and titans can couple a shoulder charge with a melee of their choosing. hunters? it's not the same play style so to take away damage that we can see Bungie is differentiating between class selection makes no sense based on a simple k/d chart. Anyone can excel at any class they choose as long as they utilize the tools but taking away 90% of what the hunter can use to counter the same abilities in another class of character who has more benefits with a certain ability makes no sense to me

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  • Then do what you can with what you got. If tripmines no longer stick then place it in strategic places same as lighting grenades, prime then nade or nade then kill. I don't see the nerf of damages as bad because high armor can survive it anyways so hunter already made the adjustment to expect that and kill the primed target. Literally the victim is left with the barest amount of health so it's an easy kill unless they escape, same as lighting or spike. Throwing knife's damage nerf was probably because of, shoot then knife kill or shoot twice then knife kill which can sill be done and is quite effective. And a benefit of this strategy is that you don't have to sprint or lead up to it you just have to have good aim, add knife gambler and it's deadly. Just watch True Vanguard if you don't believe me. If it's damage then apply incendiary knife, when Sunbreakers got nerfed the first thing I did was find more effective styles of playing and changing perks around to make my class work. It's not destroyed and can still dominate and has counters. Charging titan just shoot and head knife, more than like they're running in a straight line so easy head shots. Find things to improve you're ability to counter like put a tripmine in the path of said titan and prime and kill. Put distance using you're good agility to make the titan wiff or run out of charge time while priming the titan for an easy kill. Bladedancer then just Blink if you have the time, Nightstalker can smoke or shadestep out of the way. I know that you can never always counter and that you're going to get killed it's a part of competitive play. Counters exist in more than a class's perks you have to find them or experiment.

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  • Totally respect your opinion and it makes sense but Bungie shouldn't be meddling so much with things that aren't necessary

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  • You're saying adjust and I get it but you aren't consider the other abilities. If a hunter goes 1v1 with warlocks in a melee battle hunters lose. Same titan vs Hunter. The balance needs to give each melee ability the same damage with the perks equal. It's not currently and taking away damage perks for a class of character isn't right

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  • I do agree with you're point, if PVP was seperate from PVE. Because Bungie's idea of the Titan class is charge towards bad guys and punch in face they want Titans to be effective at it, hence the Storm fist buff and SC. Warlocks are not meant to engage at close range hence the long range melee and emphasis on grenades. And Hunters are to be flexible and fast and do well on their own (in my opinion). This is all from PVE however in pvp I think everyone's melee needs to be changed in some ways for PVP to make more sense and be more balanced. Hell I would like it if all Classes in PVP would be different in their PVE iterations. The experiences of PVE are nothing like PVP it's just a different game entirely. I don't carry over time and skills from PVE to PVP and vise versa. With them separate then I believe balance could be more easily achieved. By the way I'm not changing the subject but because of limited hunter knowledge I don't have any real insights to give. However I do plan to make another hunter, my first was replaced when I fancied making a new titan but I've long since decided against it. So I'll be enjoying Gunslinger for a bit ^^

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  • Couldn't agree more. I know bungie wants to have a blanket over PvE and PvP so that it's easily translatable but it clearly not working for the community as a whole and maybe in the coming months or year they can adjust this because it's becoming a real sore point where no one will be happy. And I feel in order to buff or nerf something that something has to be more or less uniform for all choices you're able to make. If melee is too much then across the board melee had to be the same for each class and then you can change. But because of the unique game this is there have to be more metrics to test how and why things needs to change

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  • I do thank you for having a well versed argument with someone for once. May we shake hands and depart like proper gentlemen, or gentleman and fair lady?

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  • Lonestar...hope to see you out there

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