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6/30/2016 3:48:03 AM
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This is true, but also consider this. The Book of Sorrow we read is not written in the English (or whatever language it is we read it it) but in the language of the Hive. It's written by Oryx to his killer so that if someone somehow beat him they'd understand him. It's translated in to a format that we can make sense of. While it's possible that years on Fundament are longer or shorter than Earth years, it's just as possible that the unit of time is just a rough translation to Earth years since that's a unit of time we understand.
English
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I agree with the Books being translated, but it is unclear wether it was translated into Earth years or remains as hive years. I believe that it remains as hive years because whoever translated probably has no clue how long a hive year is compared to an Earth year, they just figured out how to read the language and wrote what they read, unable to configure it into a time frame we are familiar with. I disagree with how u said whoever kills Oryx would know. Only a true minion of darkness that follows sword logic could possibly gain that knowledge by killing Oryx. The hive are the only known being that can do that, although there seems to be a chance that the vex can as thy discovered what sword logic was from the hive. So any guardian or other being that kills Oryx could not gain his knowledge, only hive, which means that the hive will forever be the only ones with the knowledge. I've seen comments you've made on other posts Saint 14, you are quite the intellectual and I admire the abundance of Destiny knowledge you have clearly obtained
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We played by the rules of sword logic to kill oryx. It's the only way to defeat him. Oryx even says it in the card. And when we make our exotic sword we follow sword logic. Just as oryx was told to watch his blades transformation as he slays his own kind. We do the same thing. We had to kill high level enemies and fellow guardians to create an exotic sword. Sword logic is not a logic of the hive. It is a logic of the deep/darkness. Followed by the hive. And now the vex. The only part of sword logic we didn't see to its end was that we didn't take the place of the king of shapes. Which is why the author of the Kings Fall card is so confused and almost distraught.
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Ok I just checked and Xivu Arath and Savathûn both remained female throughout their lives, but when Auryx became Oryx he changed from female to male
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I haven't beaten Oryx so I didn't know the grimoire mentioned sword logic. I already mentioned that the hive and possibly the vex simply followed sword logic and obey the Deep, not that they were the only ones (although we know of no others). I didn't think of the sword quest as using sword logic, I do see your point there. The defiance of sword logic by not becoming the Taken King makes sense, but I just meant that since Guardians don't necessarily follow sword logic, you didn't instantly gain Oryx's knowledge. However, I would assume that if u did become the Taken King after killing Oryx and conform to sword logic, u would instantly gain his knowledge rather than having to read the Books and the writings on the tablets that Oryx made. My assumption is that someone who doesn't follow sword logic would have to read the tablets and Books to learn, but someone who does follow sword logic would instantly gain all of Oryx's knowledge without having to read anything. This knowledge transfer is shown in the acts of Oryx and her (or maybe his. I'm not sure if there was actually a gender change between Aurash, Auryx, and Oryx) killing each other and instantly gaining the knowledge, powers, and abilities of the sibling they killed
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Edited by Patriot121: 6/30/2016 6:36:23 PMThis is honestly a rather inconsequential lore detail so my post is really here for the sake of a Devil's advocate than anything else. Both are equally plausible so I just put forward a dissenting opinion to try and encourage further discussion. With regards to your second comment, the Book is in fact written by Oryx and intended to be read by Oryx's killer, whoever that might be. It's part of his plan for pseudo-immortality in the unlikely event of his death. The plan operated under the a couple assumptions. First, that the killer would read the BoS itself. Most would agree knowledge is power and as the inquisitive sibling Oryx assumed any who would kill him must also study and learn as well. The BoS would grant understanding of who and what Oryx was to his killer. Next, the killer would claim the mantle of Taken King. This isn't a horrible assumption either. He probably didn't think anyone would willingly turn down such power when it's right there for the taking. Lastly, they'd forge the Touch of Malice. The Touch, powered primarily by the Ravenous Heart, keeps a small sliver of Oryx alive as well as retains the potential for his power by preserving his worm. All three things together would cause his killer to merge partially with Oryx himself. Both would mix and blend until neither truly remained but only a singular more prefect being with the best of both. We thwarted this, and least partially, by rejecting the mantle of Taken King.
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Oh, I stand corrected. It may not exactly be sword logic, but I see how the knowledge could be obtained. I had no idea about that Touch of Malice stuff. I still haven't gotten that gun, and didn't realize that it actually used the pieces u collect on the raid.
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[quote]I agree... I've seen comments you've made on other posts Saint 14, you are quite the intellectual and I admire the abundance of Destiny knowledge you have clearly obtained[/quote] This
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There we go.
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I thought Toland left the fragments
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Nope. It was written by Oryx as part of his plan to achieve pseudo-immortality in the event of is death.
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Some cards are written by others. Arranged and Co written by oryx is probably most accurate. One card is even addressing oryx as 'old friend'. No author is mentioned. Other cards are written from savathûn. I don't think Xivu arath wrote an entire card herself but definitely chimed in here and there. Though I suppose oryx could've recorded those events as if from a different point of view. It just seems like the writing styles vary from time to time. Making me think he did not act alone writing each fragment. But he definitely could've arranged the book on his/her own.
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I know Oryx wrote the book itself. I could have sworn I had read something that said Toland was leaving the fragments for us as a translation
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I don't believe Toland left them, but the most reasonable assumption as to how we actually read and understood them was using Toland's Journal to translate.
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Good thought but not probable. You have to remember that those books were written hundreds of thousands or millions of earth years prior. The hive didn't know of earth yet nor our measure of time.
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That's somewhat irrelevant. I'm not saying Oryx literally used a Hive word meaning "earth year." I'm saying it possible that when translating the Book of Sorrow our ghost encountered a word that stood for a unit of time, and said unit of time best translated and was most easily understood by us as a human year.
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Exaxtly!
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And the Hive have had contact with humanity for quite a while seeing as how they essentially own our Moon. It's entirely possible Oryx amended the books to be better understood by us should we defeat him seeing as he must have known we'd have the best chance of doing so.
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Edited by Andrenden: 6/30/2016 10:29:45 AMI'm going with this answer right here. It's why Oryx wasn't seen at all in the final room if the raid until after the entirety of the Deathsingers. He was editing the Book of Sorrows wikipedia for us to read.
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I thought Toland did that
