{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
originally posted in:Septagon Media Club
6/27/2016 3:31:13 PM
23
Sansa is going to end up betraying Jon. She's been corrupted.
English
-
I'm not sure she's so corrupted that she'd betray her own kin. Of all the Starks she has grown the most. The first season she reminded me of a silly girly-girl who plays with Barbie dolls and fantasize about being Disney princesses. Pretty useless. Her hardships made her stronger, not in physical finesse like her sister Arya but in cunning and inner strength. The last scene leaves us wondering. She had an expression hard to read on her face. Is she worried about what Little Finger might be up to or is she worried about her half brother being called "king of the north" since he isn't a legitimate Stark and any lord can break his word based on that alone? Besides that, I don't think Jon wants it. He'll take the title if it helps him defeat the white walkers but he's not power hungry like so many others on the show.
-
I don't think she would do it of her own intentions, I think Littlefinger will manipulate her into doing it. He's a smart man and has pretty much maneuvered around every power in Westerios. But hopefully it would back fire on him or maybe Sansa playing along with it till she traps him and gains the Knights of the Vale.
-
People keep saying that but never resent any good evidence. Elaborate.
-
Spent so much time with the Lannister and the Boltons that it's changed her. How she handled Ramsey after he was captured, her manipulating Theon, seeing Ned lose his head. Littlefinger has allready put the idea in her head, and she's allready shown a willingness to work with people she hates.
-
Edited by Patriot121: 6/27/2016 5:50:33 PMHow she handled Ramsay still keeps to the spirit of what Ned taught. People emphasize "he who passes the sentence should swing the sword" but totally forget the sentence after that they explains [i]why.[/i] "If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die." It's not about killing personally for the sake of it, it's about not letting yourself become detached from killing. If you just send for an executioner it becomes impersonal and the act of ordering an execution become easy when it never should be. She still heard him out, judged him, and punished him as personally as a woman of the time would be allowed to.
-
You see that problem with that is Starks kill by their own hand. They don't use tricks or outside sources to get retribution. Sansa using the dogs to kill Ramsey is definitely more of a Lannister thing. Using his own techniques to get revenge, which is the key word here. If she had gone about it the Stark way she would have done it with her own hands. And she didn't care what he had to say she just wanted the satisfaction of killing him.
-
You're missing the point of the quote. This isn't about killing with your own hands, it's about killing personally. That's what she did, she made his execution personal. She heard his final words, let him speak his peace, and decided he still deserves death. Was it brutal? Sure. Does it still fit very neatly into the spirit of what Ned said? Absolutely. The whole saying also isn't a Stark thing but more of a Ned thing. His diehard honor comes much more from Jon Arynn (As High as Honor) that the Starks traditionally. Traditionally the Starks were brutal, hard men bred for hard times.
-
She made his execution ironic. There was zero chance she wasn't going to kill Ramsey. Her killing Ramsey that way doesn't at all connect with that saying. ( which we apparently have very different interpretations of.) Ned, Robb, and Jon killed a fair amount respectively, and they didn't take joy or satisfaction from it. That has more of a connection to what Ned passed on to his children. Sansa took joy from killing him, especially with using his own weapons. The smile she had at the end and the taunting. It definitely felt more like a Ceresi move.
-
Not to sound too argumentative, but I think it's less difference of interpretations as ideology. Ned tells us point blank what it means. [quote]The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.[/quote] [quote][i]If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.[/i][/quote] That's exactly what Sansa did. She killed him as personally as a women in her society is allowed to. She can't swing a sword or behead him herself, but she's the one that kills him. So what if she chooses irony? She makes it so even he has to realize it's his sadist personality that led him there. The difference is, I'm okay that she kept to the spirit of the saying, whereas you're saying that she didn't keep to the letter to the law, so it doesn't count or isn't good enough.
-
I don't understand your "women of her society" bit. In this world that she's in you have women like Brianne of Tarth, the Sand Vipers in Dorne ( think that's what they are called, I might be off) Arya, Yrgritte, Asha. If your say that it's because she is a "lady" that she can't kill him with a sword or cut him with a knife then I'm going to have to call bs. There are plenty of Warrior Women in ASOIAF, so there would be no reason that she wouldn't kill him the "Ned" way if she wanted to. Not like anyone would have held it against her. Instead she chose to go about in a Lannister way, having someone or something do it for you to gain satisfaction and to prove a point. It doesn't really keep in the sprit of what Ned said since, to me atleast, was about whats Right and Wrong and Just. Not about revenge or satisfaction. To make it so you don't get comfortable with killing and completely understand the concequences of the decision.
-
Everyone you've listed is an exception to the rule. You'll also notice that none of the people you've listed are actual players in the game. With the exception of the Sand Snakes (because Dorne isn't [i]as[/i] misogynistic thanks to Nymeria and her Rhoynar) they're also all looked down or disadvantaged in their society, despite their martial skills, because they're women. While they are warriors they're not "supposed" to be and society resents them for it. Sansa is, or at least is working towards becoming, a player. She can't go around murdering people with a sword because "girl power" or some such nonsense. Society wouldn't put up with that. She has to play it in a manner similar to Catelyn, Daenerys, Margery, or Cersei because that's pretty much the only way a woman can play the game due to the restrictions of society. Whether it's right or not is irrelevant, she needs to put on the facade of a "lady" to be a player. Even if that wasn't the case, Sansa has never swing a sword in her life. In fact, it's very possible she's never held a sword at all. You can't expect a person who's never held a weapon to become a headsman just because.
-
Ther s a difference between learning and being corrupted. She's still a Stark, she just has some pragmatism instilled into her. She's smart and can play the game now, and that's not a bad thing.
-
Your right she can play the game, better than most. But that's becasue she doesn't go about it like a Stark. If she had she probably would have died along time ago. She took alot from Ceresi, and alot from Littlefinger. Now she has some Bolton teachings. She a powerhouse that I don't think alot of people are expecting.
-
People keep saying that, but I just don't see it.
-
The time with the Lannister and the Boltons. Littlefinger manipulation. She has completely changed as a character. It's not going to be just her hand, she'll be pushed into it. She's more of a Lannister than a Stark at this point.
-
I wholly disagree. She's more her own player now but one that is a Stark. She's learnt from them. She's easily one of the best players of the "game" as of yet and has been for a little while. I think she's going to start going too far, perhaps, but Arya might snap her out of it when she sees her.
-
Your right she can play the game, better than most. But that's becasue she doesn't go about it like a Stark. If she had she probably would have died along time ago. She took alot from Ceresi, and alot from Littlefinger. Now she has some Bolton teachings. She a powerhouse that I don't think alot of people are expecting. I still stand behind the fact that she's more of a Lannister though. History has shown that Starks can't play the game. Evolve and adapt. Honestly the only person who ever was like a Stark after Ned is Jon.
-
I think she'll be the first Stark in a very long time to be able to play the game. She's better at it than her mother and Lyanna.
-
Speaking of which, this season would have been abit better if we had seen some Stoneheart. But I guess that's not the direction the show is going with.
-
Yup. This episode was the last chance they really had for that in my opinion. It'll be far too long now for both the viewers and the timeline. There are a lot of things I'd have done different with this season, but oh well. Overall, I liked it.
-
I think she's going to take Little Finger up on his offer. I think she wants more power than just the North. Plus she's going to find out Jons true parentage from Bran eventually.
-
I don't think it's going to be about power. Littlefinger is going to use and manipulate Sansa for his own. Hopefully though it bites him in the end.
-
I think for Sansa it is going to be about power. Sansa is going to end up as Queen of the 7 kingdoms at the end of everything. At least that's what I think lol
