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originally posted in:Liberty Hub
6/25/2016 5:35:48 AM
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Venezuela's economy has long been largely dependent on oil. The market collapse in the 80's hurt the country's economy very badly, and by enacting several capitalistic changes to the already damaged economy, inflation, unemployment, and poverty soared in the 90's. This, along with the banking crisis Venezuela suffered in '94, leaves the country's economy to be an absolute shit storm. Said shit storm does not work with socialism, because as you can readily see from any country with a successful, socialistic economy, their success is dependent on high participation (low unemployment) and an aggressive market. Venezuela has neither of these, so it follows that socialism will not benefit the country. Imagine a ball of snow, that you roll down a hill to increase in size. Your argument is basically, "look how big that ball of snow is, that really sucks for anyone caught under it," neglecting how the ball got so big in the first place.
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  • You forgot the mass corruption. Stamping out of basic human rights. Loss of the control to sell goods how you a producer decides. You know, the thing every socialist nation does. Oh wow, its like a cycle, like, dude they all fall into ruin and decay.

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  • You always post the most well thought out and well structured arguments. [b][i][u]RESPECT[/u][/i][/b]

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  • Socialism should've fixed all of this and did you really blame capitalism in a fully socialist government and economy?

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  • [quote]Socialism should've fixed all of this[/quote] No, it shouldn't have, because that's not how socialism works. Check Norway fam.

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  • [quote]Venezuela's economy has long been largely dependent on oil. The market collapse in the 80's hurt the country's economy very badly, and by enacting several capitalistic changes to the already damaged economy, inflation, unemployment, and poverty soared in the 90's. This, along with the banking crisis Venezuela suffered in '94, leaves the country's economy to be an absolute shit storm.[/quote] Venezuela was never in a good spot, and I can't expect them to rank among the world powers. However, their adoption of socialism has only crippled them further. The current Venezuelan president was elected in 2013. Looking at GDP per capita, Venezuela has had a bit of a rough ride. However, Maduro's presidency (featuring a doubling-down on the state's control of the economy) has managed to drop GDP per capita, which had initially been on a slight rise since 2010. (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gdp-per-capita) Blaming oil entirely isn't really fair, especially given that the government has only increased its reliance on a single export. A decade ago, Venezuela's oil accounted for 80% of their export earnings. It has since shot up to 96%. Venezuela's oil industry is run by the state, clearly. Despite market fluctuations, other producers have increased in productivity. Venezuela's PDVSA is the only major energy producer in the world to experience a loss of productivity in the last 25 years. (http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-socialism-has-destroyed-venezuela) Venezuela's oil problems aren't new, either. They've been shipping out less and less oil since 1998, and their industry has been nationalized longer. Part of the problem is that they've seen an increase in domestic use. Price controls on gasoline contributed to an absurdly low price, which gave way to increased public consumption. (http://www.americasquarterly.org/node/2436)

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  • Did you not read what I just said? No shit socialism isn't going to work for them. However, this isn't an issue with socialism, the issue is the country itself, and that its economy cannot possibly adapt to socialism well because of its previous state. There are country's that socialism works well for, and country's that is doesn't. Venezuela is very evidently one that doesn't, and I could have told you that simply by looking at the high unemployment.

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  • [quote]However, this isn't an issue with socialism, the issue is the country itself, and that its economy cannot possibly adapt to socialism well because of its previous state.[/quote] What economic model could bring Venezuela out of its "previous state," and what guidelines would it have to meet before it could survive socialism? You would think that the best economic model would be the one that doesn't kick impoverished countries in the ribs. [quote]There are country's that socialism works well for, and country's that is doesn't. Venezuela is very evidently one that doesn't[/quote] It's as if economic freedom creates enough prosperity to ward off for a time the imminent decline that socialism brings.

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  • Edited by The Cellar Door: 6/26/2016 3:51:45 AM
    It's as if the high functioning economic system requires high maintenance, that which Venezuela cannot not achieve. It's almost as if their inability to achieve this predated the socialistic changes to the economy. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a [i]wild[/i] guess that socialism won't work with countries that already have a shitty, hardly sustainable economy. [i]Who would have thought?[/i]

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  • [quote]It's as if the high functioning economic system requires high maintenance, that which Venezuela cannot not achieve.[/quote] Chile can, though, and neither country is developed. [quote]And I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a wild guess that socialism won't work with countries that already have a shitty, hardly sustainable economy. Who would have thought?[/quote] If capitalism and economic freedom are the engines to prosperity, why get off the train? Especially when getting off the train means embracing a morally bankrupt ideology?

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  • The same train that sent Venezuela spiraling down? Yeasurebro

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  • Are you trying to tell me that economic freedom sent Venezuela's economy down the tubes? Because their oil industry has been nationalized since the 70's.

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  • Already on a decline since the crash in the 80's, the banking crisis hit them hard, and policies enacted in pursuit of your so called "economic freedom," like cutting government spending as well as many other things, resulted in huge increases in inflation and unemployment. History will tell you that these policies hurt the economy very badly, rather than save them as you believe they are somehow capable of. Rest assured, I'm not in anyway saying that socialism could save the Venezuelan economy, nor am I saying that it is a good fit for the Venezuelan economy, however to think the state which the economy is in now is primarily due to socialism, is simply absurd.

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  • [quote]Already on a decline since the crash in the 80's, the banking crisis hit them hard, and policies enacted in pursuit of your so called "economic freedom," like cutting government spending as well as many other things, resulted in huge increases in inflation and unemployment.[/quote] If you think economic freedom is responsible for Venezuela's inflation, you're incorrect. (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi) It was moderately level until the late 80's. In 92, things came back under control, but then spiked again 5 years later. Until about 2013 (Hey, that's when Maduro was elected), inflation was back down to pre-1980 levels. [quote]Rest assured, I'm not in anyway saying that socialism could save the Venezuelan economy, nor am I saying that it is a good fit for the Venezuelan economy[/quote] Good, because Venezuela can't handle very much more of it. [quote]however to think the state which the economy is in now is primarily due to socialism, is simply absurd.[/quote] Venezuela was actually on the path to a recovery in the early 2000's. Come 2013, they're set on another decline. (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gdp-per-capita)

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  • http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/inflation_rate_(consumer_prices).html Lol, when oil prices rose in the late 90's this allowed the GDP to grow, and inflation to remain momentarily stable, however unemployment increased as well as poverty. And your black gold fountain ran dry pretty quickly, seeing as what you call a "path to recovery," I call a steady increase.

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  • [quote]Lol, when oil prices rose in the late 90's this allowed the GDP to grow, and inflation to remain momentarily stable, however unemployment increased as well as poverty.[/quote] I wouldn't chalk that up to economic freedom. When has Venezuela ever embraced individual rights?

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  • [quote]

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  • I'm not sure if you linked the correct article, because it's not very relevant to what I've said. All that is saying is that Venezuela has a fail safe due to its Oil, which is a not exactly a good thing. This doesn't change the fact that their economy is in a shitty place, and marginal growth isn't putting food on their shelves. Unemployment is still simply too high for a socialistic economy to work effectively. The point of socialism is that everyone contributes and everyone gets back, and that cannot function correctly as a one sided slope.

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  • The point of socialism is to increase employment. Do you mean to say that there simply isn't enough natural demand for human labour?

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  • How will the employment increase when so much of the economy is based in a single market? That's like asking a genie for more wishes.

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