Okay, I have compared week 2 in Destiny to The Division. Destiny was still fun to play, at least for me. If I was bored of strikes, missions or even VoG I could play The Crucible (Something The Division doesn't seem to offer). I also still had my second subclass to level up in addition to 2 other characters, including their second subclasses. So in comparison I was nowhere near as bored with Destiny as others seem to be of The Division within the first 2 weeks of release. Also if you have to drop 2 or 3 patches within 2 weeks of your game releasing that says more about the state your game released in than a commitment to the fanbase.

1. You're bored because you're looking to the game to GIVE You things to do, rather than using the tools it has given you creatively. The "end-game" in a game like this isn't so much CONTENT, as it is PROCESS. As another posted mentioned above, you can level up a second character with different abilities and gear...so he or she will play differently. Or you can refine the character that you already have. So you're able to squeeze that last little bit of efficiency out of it. Ubisoft wasnt' kidding when they said that The Division is "...first and foremost an RPG." So if you don't think of it as an RPG, and approach it like you would an Action-RPG...you WILL get bored. Because you'll be waiting for the game to do for you, what the developers are expecting you to do for yourself. 2. Disagree. It speaks to the responsiveness of the developer. Destiny---two years into its life----has more problems and more bugs (STILL) than does The Division. The extent of what I had to put up with playing Destiny was driven home to me when I played the closed beta...and had The Divisions BETA run nearly flawlessly for 8 hours.... ...only to then TRY to log onto Destiny. ...and sit there for 10 minutes watching "Contacting Dsetiny servers...." only to have to reboot my PS4 and my router before FINALLY being able to play Destiny. Ubisoft has clearly been watching Destiny, and taking notes of all the mis-steps that Bungie has made, and all the player frustrations that plague Destiny gamers. They are clearly committed to NOT making those same mistakes.

1) My post is saying that after 2 weeks of Destiny I was not bored with the game, unlike what a lot of people tend to say about The Division. I then listed the numerous things I still had left to do in Destiny after 2 weeks. Even if I only use The Taken King DLC as a comparison I still had things to do for more than 2 weeks after release. In my first 2 weeks of Destiny I still had other stuff to do without even having to consider making a second or third character, unlike what is said about The Division. The very same things you said about making a new character/ class or refining your current character can be said about Destiny as well. The Division's combat system being more RPG based than shooter based is BORING. If you say that this is how the game is supposed to be then guess what someone like myself is going to find The Division to be a boring game. "The "end-game" in a game like this isn't so much CONTENT, as it is PROCESS." The same can be said about Destiny but guess what Destiny seems to be more fun during this process. Sounds like you're trying to give a game a pass for the same thing you've criticized Destiny for in the past. There just isn't much to do in The Division, based on what seems to be said about it. In addition to you not being able to give an example of anything that is going to hold someone's attention for the next few weeks while you wait for Incursions. 2) It speaks to a game that was launched before it was ready to be launched, hence why its had so many issues so far and why there is so much that needs to be addressed. Destiny does not or as far as I can remember ever had any bugs that resulted in a player losing all of their progress due to their data getting corrupted. The Division was even delayed a year so it could address all of these issues so sorry multiple patches within the first couple of weeks of its release is a bad look to me.

1. You still have things to do in the Division. You just may not LIKE those things or find them fun to do. That is NOT the same as "having nothing to do.". 2. The combat system is BORING....TO YOU. It is ANYTHING but boring to this long-time Action-RPG player. In fact I find the combat to me much more challenging, and to demand a lot more of me than running around like a super-hero, as you do in Destiny. With no shields and only partially regenerating health, the game forces you to think about what you're doing and to fight smart and not just hard. 3. No. Destiny----even two years into the game----is PAPER THIN and poorly developed as an RPG. Because of the need to "balance" things for PVP, the amount of customization and min-maxing that is allowed into the game is pretty minimal. Two weeks into The Division...and I've barely SCRATCHED THE SURFACE of what this game will let us do in terms of crafting particular builds, and min-maxing their abilities. Which is why----imo----Ubisoft is waiting so long to release its end-game. What the point of releasing any more challenging content, when many of the Challenge mode story missions are still kicking people's asses? 4. I'm not giving anyone a "pass". I'm just not going to compare a game that is two years old to one that is two weeks old. Bottomline, is that there is more to The Division's "end-game-in-progress", than there was to Destiny at the same point it its history. 5. Only because you are either new to this forum, or you werern't paying attention. People during Year One were having problems with the vault system chewing up their inventory....and those people NEVER got back the items they lost. Destin y was also delayed a year in its launch...and two years into its life STILL suffers from stability, connectxivity and latency related problems. Many of which plagued it at launch and have never really improved. So you REALLY don't want to go there. I've got 2000 hours in Destiny, and I know where ALL the bodies are buried with this game. I really like Destiny as a shooter game----though it was a disappointment as an RPG. But you REALLY don't want to get into a pissing contest as a Destiny fanboy with The Division over coding, stability, or developer responsiveness. Because (right now) Ubisoft is not only winning they are caving Bungie's skull in right now. People did't like the balance in the Dark Zone...and Ubisoft had a patch to address it in about a week. The fastest we've ever seen Bungie respond on anything likes this is 3 months....and that's only in Year Two. In year one, the Thornpocalypse dragged on for six month before Bungie fixed it.

1) A lot of people don't like the end game in The Division hence why the original post is trying to defend the game. He tries to go the route and say Destiny had the same end game issues 2 weeks after release, which is false. 2) The combat system once again is something that is criticized widespread, one of the biggest issues highlighted in Game Informer's and Angry Joe's review of the game. In addition to being something confirmed by everyone who either likes or hates the game. 3) The Division has been out for less than a month and its already being compared to being as stale as a game that hasn't had content added in over 6 months. So if Destiny is as paper thin as you suggest then guess what The Division is worse by comparison. Destiny is a shooter I don't view it as an RPG, never have and more than likely never will. 4) you are giving The Division a pass because the very things you've criticized about Destiny exist in The Division in regards to lack of activities to do as an endgame. If you like the game good on you but don't try to act as if its better than Destiny. I compared my first 2 weeks of Vanilla Destiny to the first 2 weeks of what has transpired in The Division. Then I compared The Taken King DLC on its own compared to what has transpired in The Division both of which lasted more than 2 weeks in terms of enjoyment. 5) I've been on these forums for quite some time, mainly using it as a means to get people to play raids or Nightfalls. I also said I have not heard of any issues in regards to players losing all of their progress due to their game files getting corrupted. Out of 200 plus friends not one seemed to ever have this issue. In addition I don't recall seeing this mentioned in the forums either or any of the LFG made fireteams I've been in. I have heard of players losing items using 3rd party sites to transfer gear but never all of their characters getting wiped due to a bug in the game. Congrats on you have 2000 plus hours on Destiny (I had 1500 plus before House of Wolves dropped) so I'm willing to bet I have more time than you by now. I would like to see The Division at least make it through its first year before claiming its kicking Bungie's skull in.

1. Yes, Destiny did. The Vault of Glass raid didn't drop until the last week of September, 2014. Also, The Division is a MUCH more complicated game than is Destiny. Because a lot more team work is involved, and there are a lot more builds that need to be explored. Besides, a LOT of players still can't beat all the content that shipped with the game. When you can two-man Warrensgate Power on Challenge Mode, call me. I will officially declare that you've run out of things to do. 2. The combat system is only criticized by people who either played Destiny, or played other Tom Clancy games. So they either unfalirly comparing the game to a FPS...or wanted a tactical shooter instead of an RPG shooter. The game is a cover-based shooter. So learning to interact with the cover system is as much a part of the game as shooting things. If you don't like those kinds of games, then don't play this one. Just that simple. 3. Its only stale to those gamers who relate to the game as a shooter rather than an RPG. Well welcome to how we RPG gamers have been feeling about Destiny for the last two years. Like I said earlier, I've barely scratched the surface of what can be done with the RPG that is incorporated into the Division. If you don't find that process fun, then I'm sorry. You are playing the wrong game. As much as someone who is playing Destiny and finds shooting things boring. 4. No, I just understand that its waste of time (and unfair) to compare anything but apples to apples. Destiny and The Division were desgined to appeal to VERY different gamers. Bungie created Destiny primarily as a shooter...but was surprised when MMO-RPG gamers were also interested in it. Bungie has largely kept the shooter gamers happy....but alienated most of the RPG gamers. Ubisoft-Massive said pre-launch that The Division was going to be a game targeted at RPG gamers. IOW, if you come to this game expecting the experience you get with a typical shooter game, you will be disappointed. But in typical gamer fashion, people either didn't listen or didn't bother to learn about the game they were buying....and now want to fault the game. At this point it is simply not reasonable or fair to have any discussion bout The Divisions endgame, because they are still in the process of rolling it out. But even still, The Divsiion has more to do than did vanilla Destiny at the same point. Where you basically have 15 strike play list of Heroic strikes....and a Nightfall playlist of the same size, that you CANNOT cheese. 5. All games this complex have bugs...and I really don't think you want to have a discussion about which developer has been more responsive and fixed problems. faster. Not with Destiny being plagued my many of the same problems it had at launch. 5. The Divsiion----to the type of gamer it was targeting---is already caving Bungie's skull. Ubisoft's maketing strategy was clearly designed to drive a wedge between the shooter/PVP gamer that Bungie catered to in year two...and the MMO-RPG/pVE gamer that they took granted and progressively alienated....and walk off with them That plan is clearly working. Becauese the gamers that Ubisoft set to go after are not the ones who are complaining....because they aren't the ones who are complaining that there isn't enough to do or what there is to do is "boring". Those players have left Destiny to play The Division (or other games) .... ...and there is a good chance they will not be back. In fact my own intention was to play BOTH games..but I have felt NO urge to play Destiny since The Division dropped....and not much of one to go back to play what Bungie has revealed so far about The April Update. I did NOT expect The Division to have that impact. The Division will never "kill" Destiny....but it has already helped to cripple it.

1) Once again you're wrong about people being bored with Destiny within the first 2 weeks of the game, as many of them were leveling up their characters in preparation for VoG. In addition to that Destiny actually has a PvP side of the game giving it far more re-playability than The Division. 2) People are complaining because they thought the game was going to be a shooter based on what was advertised leading up to the games release. The E3 trailers that had people so pumped for this game showed exciting gameplay, not unloading mag after mag into some guy rushing you with a baseball bat. So people are fair in their criticism of this game especially considering how Tom Clancy games has tended to be on the more "realistic" end of the spectrum in terms of damage dealt to enemies. Rainbow Six Vegas and Vegas 2 used a cover based combat system as well but enemies died in a reasonable fashion. 3) Fair enough, just don't get upset when people say they prefer Destiny over The Division or when they say The Division is boring. For a lot of people the game is boring due to the RPG elements that you like. That's on the developer showcasing the shooting elements of The Division when its really more of an RPG than a shooter. I've always felt that if people didn't like Destiny then they should just play something else. If someone tells me they don't like Destiny then that's fine play something that you like. 4) The same thing applies to Destiny the background of the companies involved with Destiny are known for their work in FPS not RPG games. The same reason people blame/ fault Destiny for things can be said about The Division. The trailers for The Division highlighted the shooter element of the game not the negative aspects of this game that come from its RPG side. As a result you're going to have a lot of people who bought the game expecting a cool shooter who are going to be disappointed. 5) You can say this all you want I could care less. IMO The Division had a worse launch than Destiny and has left a lot of people extremely disappointed in the game and as time passes people are going to bail on this game as they realize the game isn't the shooter they were looking for. 6) The type of player The Division targets isn't the same type of player Bungie targets so its not caving Bungie's skull, that would be like saying a Vegan restaurant is going to cripple a steakhouse. The Division is new and was a highly hyped game but at the end of the day if a player is looking for a shooter they are going to want to play Destiny over The Division. The only thing that has hurt Destiny is Bungie opting not to release an expansion for this game in over 6 months, on the other hand you have The Division with people who dislike the game based on how its designed vs what they were looking for. One of these issues can be easily fixed the other not so much and IMO Bungie is in a better position to fix their issues than The Division is. One thing I've learned about most gamers is that they tend to get over things for games they like to play, EA is one of the most hated gaming companies but their games still sell plenty of copies. So even though you claim to have no interest returning to Destiny you're still here on Bungie.net, you're actions don't seem to match your words IMO.

1. [b] I'm not wrong about it, because I lived through it. [/b] Not only did people become bored with Destiny during that time,....they -blam!-ing quit in DROVES. Luke Smith gave an interview about how "humbling" it was (under the orginal light-level system) to see so many people reach the end of the game...and level 20...and then quit. Because they couldn't adjust to the nature of how the game changed. That it went from a campaign, to a open-world gear grind to level up to 26 so you could even do the raid. Vanilla Destiny had a LOT of problems when it launched...and to Bungie's credit....they addressed a LOT of them that First Year. But NOTHING is to be gained by selective memory and pretending they didn't happen. 2. To those who paid attention...and CARED enough to participate in the beta....Ubisoft TOLD you what you are going to get, and what to expect. They even gave us multiple opportunities to essentially DEMO the game before it was released. So---as a matter of principle----the [b] The game wasnt' what I imagined and its their fault[/b] doesn't fly with me. You're spending YOUR money. Do your homework. But it ESPECIALLY doesnt' fly with me hear. Ubisoft went out of their WAY----far beyond what you can reasonably expect of any business---to tell you PRECISELY what it was you were going to be getting. If you didn't pay attention, and were expecting something different because of what you **imagined***. Your fault. Your problem. Because, in the adult world, businesses aren't going to hold your hand. They expect you to be an informed consumer...and if you arent', well that's too bad. 3. Not upset. I don't care if anyone likes or dislikes a game. I've NEVER told anyone they had to like Destiny...and I'm not going to tell anyone they need to like The Division. What I AM going to do is defend BOTH games against unreasonable or unfair criticism. Just because you don't LIKE a game, doesn't mean its a bad game. Just because I don't like the taste of sauerkraut (hate cabbage) doesn't mean that it wasn't cooked properly. 4. Wrong again. I only have a problem with Bungie because Bungie is not very nimble. They created a different game than the one they set out to create...and instead of adapting...they stubbornly just keep pressing ahead and trying to manage Destiny as if it were just a shooter game. It isn't. Ubisoft did it right. They have a history of making games that are clunky and have unsatisfying controle schemes. But they got the help of Massive and Red Storm to help them create a game that has a very smooth and intuitive control scheme as cover-based shooters go. Something Bungie has been stubbornly unwilling to do. Even though they have of the most successful (MMO-)RPG developers in the world as corporate partner......Blizzard. For what it was intended to be. Ubisoft made a VERY good game. Now if you don't like that kind of game....you have other choices in the marketplace to spend your money on. But, once again, Ubisoft went out of their way to make it clear that this game was not going to be your typical shooter. [b]Precisely what aspect of "The Division is first and foremost an RPG"....was unclear. [/b] Spending money as an uniformed consumer is YOUR fault. It is YOUR responsibility to know what it is your buying. Not theirs. 5. You can say whatever you like. I can say "The Sky is Green". Doesn't make it true. Like I said, for the third time. Ubisoft gave people ample opportunity to know what it was they were buying. They are NOT responsible for those who failed to take advantage of those opportunities. 6. The problem with Destiny is that Bungie HAS no real maketing strategy and HAS no coherent vision for the game...BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE -blam!- THEY ARE DOING WITH THE GAME THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY CREATED, AND STUBBORNLY REFUSE TO LEARN. So Bungie has spent most of Year Two stumbling around alienating a MAJOR part of the player base...and (sadly) failing to please even the segment of the fanbase that they (unfortunately) decided to cater to. Harold Ryan, basically, got FIRED. Companies that have Boards of Directors that are satisfied with how the company is doing, and with the direction its is heading.....DO NOT change CEOs. Bungie is a company that is in disarray and wandering aimlessly....though Parsons seems to be slowly righting the ship. Ubisoft is smartly , and ruthlessly, TARGET a significant part of the Destiny fanbase----the part MOST disatisified with Bungie and the direction the game is going----and are trying to make off with it. ...and so far, they are succeeding. It's called "Stealing Marketshare." They've got what they set out to get...and if some shooter gamers are unhappy, so what. Because they were never going to keep those players...and never intended to....anyway. Which is why they told you not to come to The Division, and expect a typical shooter game experience.

I'm going to summarize everything you've just responded with in the following response. I lived through it as well and 2 weeks into the game I still had fun stuff to do with the game, same can be said for every DLC I've purchased for Destiny. At the moment there seems to be a growing response/ reaction that the same cannot be said about The Division. Much like The Division had a Beta Destiny had one as well so that's a mute point. Much like The Division has made mistakes Destiny has made some as well. However, Bungies mistakes are easily correctable, the reason I believe Destiny has a much better chance of fixing its issues than The Division. Since the CEO was fired Bungie (by your own admission) his replacement has been correcting the mistakes made by the previous CEO, that shows a company that is learning from its mistakes and righting the ship. Ubisoft did target a disgruntle portion of Destiny's player base, smart on them as long as their game can actually keep them happy. As of right now this has not been the case, which is the point that I'm making. Just as quick as those player rushed out and bought The Division they're going to dump the game when they realize they don't like the RPG aspects of this game. I think you underestimate how many people expected The Division to be more shooter than RPG or the type of players that jumped over. If disgruntle players leave one game to go to The Division and do not like the game they are still going to be disgruntle and dare I say toxic. I keep telling you to wait until The Division has survived at least a year before heaping praise as if its winning anything but you just don't want to listen. Titanfall and Evolve were hyped games as well when they released and we've seen how long that lasted.

...and I'm similarly going to summarize you've said. [b] You are conflating YOUR personal experience with the game, with that of the entire communities. They are not the same, and you do not speak for everyone who has played this game. [/b] I'm happy that you enjoyed the game and weren't bored with Destiny after two weeks. I FELT THE SAME. But there were a LOT of people who didn't. I loved Prison of Elders and enjoyed playing it each week...but a LOT of people did not. Also the grousing that is going on right now around The Division is no more than surrounds ANY high-profile game, and is largely the product of people who either didn't do their homework before buying the game, were determined to get to level cap fast, and skipped half the game, and now are unhappy....or don't understand the game that they have and what the game expects of you in the end game. Experienced ARPG gamers are happily min-maxing away at the moment. If anything they are only complaining that there are SO many customizations options that it will take them years to perfect their builds. So much so that I felt the need to call out one of the major YouTube guys for the game, because he posted a video whining about this...and how he'd have to sort through 2000 different variations on a piece of gear in order to get any "good" rolls. I called him out and told him that he wasn't bitching about "good" rolls. He was bitching about the fact that they game wasn't easily giving up PERFECT rolls on gear only two weeks into the game. Don't know about you....but to me thats' a good thing. Because it makes that perfect roll really special...and you dont' have everyone running around with the same God-rolled weapons and breaking the game.

week 2 Destiny people already beat VoG easy mode. (came out right after week 1) so their endgame is not the same. Division Still hasn't fixed the bugs that are preventing me from getting achievements so I can finally get plat in the game

Only a very small percentage got through VoG that early because loot was broken.

I would think more got through it by the end of week 2 than you would think. Everyone always thinks they are in the majority, so if they didn't do it, clearly not alot of people did it. Each raid in destiny was beat just hours after they were opened. and then by many others