The irony is that you're literally claiming ownership over, what did you call them... "scrubs" because you aren't a top tier player. Do you really not see how backwards [i]your[/i] "logic" is? [spoiler]Elites would still deal with elites on a regular basis actually, just so much as you would, however it would be based by connection. To add to it there will be rarely more than one-two elite(s) in each lobby(wot u fokn can't team shot one player? Then go play pokemon kid). [/spoiler] [i] In reality it's fair for everybody if you based matchmaking in a social playlist on a casual game by their connections and not their skill when this game as I'm sure we've all said "takes no skill". [/i] I hear "stats don't matter" "we're just trying to have fun too" "oh is the precious top tier player mad because their stats will drop?!" yet you're mad because you may get shat on once or twice a week[if you even play that much] by this top tier player... presumably what, "ruining your stats"? Oh [i]that's right[/i] you just wanna have [u]fun[/u]. Now we're getting somewhere- bringing my point to fruition. So don't top tier players, and yes it's fun for them to not play multiple top tier players all day every day [i]when they aren't intending to[/i], just as you said. They aren't contesting this fascinating revelation/epiphany of which only you have achieved. Lulz. [spoiler]They are literally saying the same thing as you, granted I enjoy competitive games too- however I don't want to be literally locked out of chilling/playing for fun if I want to. The only selfish one here are the people who want the entire gaming experience to cater to stats(while ironically saying they don't matter because this game takes no skill or simply that they don't care for them) because of their bad stats and how that means they "can't handle these top tier players beating them once a week or month, if they even play pvp" -lulwot. [/spoiler] How backwards can it get? [i]Seeing as there are no private matches[lan based], dedicated servers, no ranked playlists and a general sense of incompetence to balancing(thorn/heavy op) there is literally no logical reasoning in putting such a social, casual and honestly shit fk of a mess we've come to call "Crucible" into "Skill Based Matchmaking".[/i]

Why waste time in a match that I have no impact on? Honestly, first people whinge about getting put in losing matches, then beg for a system that basically guarantees one sides routs that players will drop out of. Honestly, give me reasonable challenge over randomness any day.

[quote]Why waste time in a match that I have no impact on? Honestly, first people whinge about getting put in losing matches, then beg for a system that basically guarantees one sides routs that players will drop out of. Honestly, give me reasonable challenge over randomness any day.[/quote] 1). I love challenges 2). I don't want to be told I have to only play competitively in an already casual game that I only have played because of said casual gameplay [spoiler]RIP "destiny n chill"[/spoiler] 3). Then ask for ranked playlist and stop imposing on the entire player's base gameplay

I'm all for challenge, but not pointless blowouts where I'm either not needed (We'd have won even if I wasn't there) or I'm not able to effect he outcome (Opposition are so over skilled it's senseless to engage). They aren't challenging. Hopefully the new method will at least take skill into account... Otherwise we'll all end up joining a lot of losing matches as people ragequit. It also slightly spoils Iron Banner for me. Now I'm not using strategy and tactics to out think equally skilled players and get wins. I'm being randomly handed victories by a system I have no control over. If I get five medallions I have no incentive to roll up my sleeves and play to win.. I'm better off dropping out and restarting repeatedly until the random matchmaking throws up a team I can trounce. You say you like a challenge, but where's the challenge in that?

[quote]I'm all for challenge, but not pointless blowouts where I'm either not needed (We'd have won even if I wasn't there) or I'm not able to effect he outcome (Opposition are so over skilled it's senseless to engage). They aren't challenging. Hopefully the new method will at least take skill into account... Otherwise we'll all end up joining a lot of losing matches as people ragequit. It also slightly spoils Iron Banner for me. Now I'm not using strategy and tactics to out think equally skilled players and get wins. I'm being randomly handed victories by a system I have no control over. If I get five medallions I have no incentive to roll up my sleeves and play to win.. I'm better off dropping out and restarting repeatedly until the random matchmaking throws up a team I can trounce. You say you like a challenge, but where's the challenge in that?[/quote] [spoiler]First of all that still happens. In fact it happens more than ever- quitting and me winning while AFK. It doesn't mean both teams are fair with sbmm? Do you even understand what you're arguing for? It could be, and is, 6 players who're exponentially better and in a party versus 6 kids who just happen to play a lot. Top 1% also ranged from KDs of 1.75-4.0 thus it's no different than before however only solo players are punished(freelance doesn't solve it either, once again it makes the lobby by stats not teams). Thus every time the players who don't have 6/3 way above par players get stomped. I've been on both sides. Sbmm is severely flawed. [/spoiler] Most of all- They already showed the stats... Those blowouts first and foremost [u]still happen[/u] but most of all happen according to bungie less than 1% of the time. You're literally not being logical if you support bungie's implementation of sbmm in every playlist. I play destiny's current version of private matches called "sweats" or "swets" or "swet'es". Lol. There is nothing skill based about destiny. There's no tactic is using exotic armor to gain OP abilities. I don't want to go into a social playlist and play a "sweaty" game when I'm trying to relax and play for fun. There is no fun in any challenge if it's forced upon you and inevitable. Then it becomes a job, and refer back to what I said- destiny takes no skill and cannot currently "go pro". Stop with your inanity. [i]Until you implement ranked playlists, customs and at least nowadays dedicated servers(theatre mode too) sbmm shouldn't even exist or be present in any way shape or form.[/i] [spoiler]Edit: I would enjoy it if you'd please stop replying in a way that makes me repeat myself.[/spoiler]

They're defining blowouts very narrowly in that case, or are all the people complaining about joining games in progress just full of it?

[quote]They're defining blowouts very narrowly in that case, or are all the people complaining about joining games in progress just full of it?[/quote] Today I've played 10 matches and every single one was a join in progress. They haven't fixed anything, they've made what pvp experience I once enjoyed into a tedious bore with literally no reward. Not to mention severely frustrating when I can't register my shots because red bars everywhere. Are you suggesting that this game should cater further to children who can't handle a challenge? What don't you get that there will still be a challenge like there was y1 with cbmm? I still played very sweaty games then, against streamers and such. You act like sbmm gives more of a challenge but all it does is alienate the player base from each other. For instance all pro athletes, if they played little league sports it wasn't against other pros? Their high school football teams didn't seek out future pros for them to play. Even in college. It isn't until they sign contracts and gain sponsors that they are now pro athletes. It's silly to compare this scenario to a pro athlete playing a kid, as OP has done. Once again give me ranked. I play competitively. That doesn't mean I don't want to play for fun and chill, or let my buddy play on my account. It's absolutely ridiculous you're arguing that this game should revolve around its stats when it's the further thing away from a competitive FPS I've personally played. I mean dot spawn in weapons? Heavies with supers and special? This game is not competitive and simply matching kids based on stats does nothing to the competitive factor this game could have, in fact it's ruining it. Like I said now at least several times, I play for wins when I want to- not when the game tells me to. It doesn't work that way.

Hang on, you said blowouts were 1% of matches but you also assert that you're always joining games in progress... Which is it? Are blowouts common or not? What about things like IB where the challenge is meant to be in getting wins? Just being handed them (Or denied a chance at them) kind of takes away the point. I understand your desire for a casual mode, but it presumably will only be casual to top players. Everyone below average will have a harder time. To my mind that's what custom games are for, play against buddies etc.

[quote]Hang on, you said blowouts were 1% of matches but you also assert that you're always joining games in progress... Which is it? Are blowouts common or not? What about things like IB where the challenge is meant to be in getting wins? Just being handed them (Or denied a chance at them) kind of takes away the point. I understand your desire for a casual mode, but it presumably will only be casual to top players. Everyone below average will have a harder time. To my mind that's what custom games are for, play against buddies etc.[/quote] Are you illiterate? "I join in progress"- Nowhere did I say I join into a blowout? You really need to learn how to read and think logically. It's severely stressing for other sentient beings. Unless you wanna be told sit, down, paw and shut up? Only casual to top players? What are you doing right now? Playing those same casuals you'd still play just as if it were cbmm. You understand statistics, correct? Top 1% you do the fokn math. The only difference being one or two good players maybe a day or week, if you play that much in your lobby. Holy shit, get over yourself. I'm suppose to literally bend over because you can't handle a challenge once a week, if that? Then you turn it on me and say I don't want a challenge when I'm challenging myself everyday in private matches but then try to chill in social ones and literally can't because it's too challenging to relax? Irony. Such twisted and insane "logic" you have. 1). Don't tell me how to enjoy the game 2). If it's such a big deal you lose every now and then to somebody better than you plead for ranked playlists so those sweaty kids have something to grind for 3). Stop telling me that because I play for fun in a casual game I don't like challenges, it doesn't make sense.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks does not prove your point. I presume those joins in play were primarily losing matches because they're primarily the ones people quit. Read my post above, I want challenging matches, against players near my level. Not matches against players who are vastly over or under skilled. Even if they are rare, and I suspect they'd be more common than you think, I wouldn't support anything that increased them.

[quote]Resorting to ad hominem attacks does not prove your point. I presume those joins in play were primarily losing matches because they're primarily the ones people quit. Read my post above, I want challenging matches, against players near my level. Not matches against players who are vastly over or under skilled. Even if they are rare, and I suspect they'd be more common than you think, I wouldn't support anything that increased them.[/quote] You are defending a system that wants others to be able to relax playing less sweats. Yet indifferent towards the sweaty players because they are better. Honestly go fk yourself with some cacti douche bag. These people defending sbmm literally are the worst and sorest of losers I've ever met. Like I said. I played plenty of games unintentionally against friends or well known players in year one and it was competitive. You don't make sense in saying there won't be a challenge when this game is not skillful and offers little challenges to begin with. Not to mention there can be challenges, as I said organize sweats. Your problem solved. Nah you'd rather continue to piss off others to get what you want, in disregard to the core of the pvp player base. For instance I have more kills in control than you do overall. My point is that these top tier players play so much that they already played each other but in between they got to relax and chill- so those matchups were fun. Now they all immediately back out of games, it's not fun knowing you will lose because you know the other team from destinytracker leaderboards. Not to mention as I said if it's cbmm you're eventually will be able to play these players seeing as how much they play versus sbmm- all you'd have to do is play a lot. However now you'll never be challenged. You're always playing kids your skill level. That is not challenging when you aren't at the top level- it's called little leagues and is nothing compared to the real shit. You really don't understand anything honestly.

I'd rather everyone got matched against players of their own level, rather than punished by high level players to serve the enjoyment of an elite few. I don't see any issue with even matches (if it can be done without causing lag.) In any case you're just hurling insults now, so I won't be drawn further.

Just take it this way SBMM right now isn't working because the servers can't hold a good connection You're not saying the wrong thing just at the wrong time. Also, ever heard the saying "to get better you have to play against better?" I'm not going to progress any better by playing people my skill. In trials a game isn't challenging till I'm 8-0 maybe 7-0 that's when the good players come out and I'm tested. I have close friend who aren't so good, I take them into classic rumble and they fight against me and others. They've gotten better. Since SBMM if they play on their own, they win and have top score but it's no challenge. There needs to be ranked and social playlists.

That isn't necessarily true, players need to be in your ballpark to learn from them and improve. I wouldn't learn anything sparring with Agayev, nothing I tried would work and no defence I could use would prevent him scoring. The same applies here...

I'm not saying go and play the top 10 or 100 players and you'll get better but let's say I'm in the top 500 and I play someone in top 200-250 I'm gonna have more of a challenge and learn from that quicker than playing someone in the top 450-499. The problem with SBMM is it try's to get someone as close to your skill as possible if you average a 1.02 it's gonna search forever to find someone with a 1.03-1.1. That's how standard SBMM use to be at least.

So you're saying a bad player should never have to play someone better than them? How does that make sense? SBMM is what participation awards are made of.

Not at all. They should play people within a range of their skill level. Some a little better, some a little worse. Same for everyone else.

SBMM should be left to the olympics, and left out of relay for life. Could you imagine going to the local 5k and finding out you are being grouped with people who run the same speed as you, and you all finish at the same time. Speaking of which, maybe SBMM should be added to sexual activities if you know what I mean ;) Bracket racing is boring, heads up racing is where it's at.

That makes sense... Just like how we make high school kids play against professional athletes, so the pro's can show how much better they are, and to allow the kids to develop their skills... lol

Yea I've never heard of pro basketball players playing casual pickup ball with anyone other than pro basketball players. Trials should be SBMM. Crimson doubles, not so much.