"King's fall is time consuming..." Defend the conflux Oracle Now that is time consuming

I will fully admit that Vault of Glass is the best raid, but I really don't think KF is bad. It has mechanics that actually enforce teamwork. Hell, Crota's End is actually soloable. That raid is a joke. The weapons are crap except for like 2 of them, and the entire raid is doable in half an hour. That is not the point of a raid. KF on the other hand, like VoG, exemplifies exactly what a raid should be - a collaboration of highly skilled players struggling for a decent amount of time to beat a fairly difficult challenge. People seem to think that they're entitled to beat the raid because it's there, and that just isn't the case. Like Trials of Osiris is just too hard for some people, the raid is the same. It's the hardest thing the game has to offer, and not everyone is going to be able to beat the hardest thing in the game. That's just reality. It isn't fair, but it is factual. All of that being said, I fully agree that VoG definitely is the best raid by far, hands down. It's explorable, open, yet mysterious enough to make us wonder if there's more to it than we know constantly. KF and Crota's end don't have that element. I think one of the best points about the encounters in VoG is that you couldn't always ahve direct help or support of your team, and simply had to trust them with certain things. Like the oracles, you must rely on and expect your team to do their job right. That's how you pull through as a team. When fighting Atheon, you're scattered all over the room, whereas in KF like at Golgoroth or the Sisters or the Warpriest, you can shoot across the room to help somebody else out. You're not as alone. It's a different feeling, but not a bad one.

I'm glad you enjoy King's Fall. I hate it. I think it's too gimmicky. I hate it. I do not enjoy any aspect of it. The rewards are terrible on top of that.

Alright, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm simply saying it's not the popular one, so don't expect a lot of sympathizers. Yes, you'll find people pointing out bugs, but the overall satisfaction with the core raid mechanics is pretty high. Obviously there are bugs and such, and the challenge mode was disappointing, but when the raid first came out and people were trying the thing out for the first time, it had stellar reviews. As I said, you have an opinion, it's just not a popular one. Don't look for sympathy where you'll find little if any.

[quote]Here's something else, Vault of Glass. That was/is an immensely satisfying raid. It's a shame it has fallen into irrelevance. King's Fall is a time consuming, gimmicky, pain in the ass. I've not enjoyed a single minute of that raid. I dislike it so much that I have minimal interest is running it very often. In short, I hate the new raid. Vault of Glass is the best raid this game has and it was left behind in Year 1.[/quote] An hour and a half or so isn't really that time consuming.

[quote]An hour and a half or so isn't really that time consuming.[/quote] Because everyone knocks it out in that amount of time, right? We all don't live in your bubble. I've never finished it in that amount of time. Never. 3-4 hours is usually what it takes. I'm glad you can knock it out that quickly, but never ever assume that's the norm.

[quote][quote]An hour and a half or so isn't really that time consuming.[/quote] Because everyone knocks it out in that amount of time, right? We all don't live in your bubble. I've never finished it in that amount of time. Never. 3-4 hours is usually what it takes. I'm glad you can knock it out that quickly, but never ever assume that's the norm.[/quote] Okay. But it sounds like you weren't in the norm yourself if you're saying Vault was routinely faster than KF. It sure wasn't when I started doing it. Maybe it got much faster after TDB and such, but is that really a fair comparison to KF anyway?

I'm comparing my experiences with my other experiences. So, yes, it's a fair comparison.

[quote]I'm comparing my experiences with my other experiences. So, yes, it's a fair comparison.[/quote] Yet when I do that you tell me not to act like it's the norm. Why is it ok when you do it?

[quote]Yet when I do that you tell me not to act like it's the norm. Why is it ok when you do it?[/quote] Because I don't live in a vacuum where all statements are equal and context is to be ignored. I said King's Fall is a time consuming pain in the ass. You then said that 90-120 minutes ain't that bad. You put that range out there as a "norm" by assuming either I was taking too long to finish the raid or I didn't want to dedicate two hours to a raid. I didn't initially put a range out there because it didn't matter. To me, it's a time consuming pain in the ass. It's not enjoyable. That makes the time spent in the raid feel that much longer. You created the "norm" when you specified a time frame. You assumed 90-120 minutes was a reasonable guesstimate. I do not care how quickly other people finish the raid. I only care how long it takes me. It could take 30 minutes. If it was as unenjoyable as it currently is, I still wouldn't want to play it.

[quote][quote]Yet when I do that you tell me not to act like it's the norm. Why is it ok when you do it?[/quote] Because I don't live in a vacuum where all statements are equal and context is to be ignored. I said King's Fall is a time consuming pain in the ass. You then said that 90-120 minutes ain't that bad. You put that range out there as a "norm" by assuming either I was taking too long to finish the raid or I didn't want to dedicate two hours to a raid. I didn't initially put a range out there because it didn't matter. To me, it's a time consuming pain in the ass. It's not enjoyable. That makes the time spent in the raid feel that much longer. You created the "norm" when you specified a time frame. You assumed 90-120 minutes was a reasonable guesstimate. I do not care how quickly other people finish the raid. I only care how long it takes me. It could take 30 minutes. If it was as unenjoyable as it currently is, I still wouldn't want to play it.[/quote] I also only care how long it takes me, that's why I said how long it takes me.