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11/15/2015 1:00:32 AM
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I thought this is something that adds a little perspective...
http://i.imgur.com/JSBOmT4.jpg
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They're committing these attacks in the name of their faction (ISIS), nation (Syria) and God (Allah)*. Sure, they don't represent the majority of Muslims, but that doesn't mean that the ideology doesn't have issues that need to be addressed by the moderate Muslim. * [spoiler]It was caught on record during the Paris attacks that Jihadists said "Allahu Akbar", "This is for Syria" and "We are ISIS". [/spoiler]
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Every religion has issues and Muslims are no exception. However, look at some of the ones here in the good old US of A. A lot of those people were totally AOK with bombing civilians in the two wars we had in the middle east. OK with blowing up abortion clinics, OK with denying right to people because "GOD" said to. Religion can be really bad sometimes. This doesn't give ISIS the right to do anything of the sort but we have to look at things a bit more broad if we ever want to live in a better world.
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A lot of those US citizens were ok with it because, usually, they are ignorant to the reality of warfare in a country filled with innocent lives. No one is going to listen to the edgy 14 year old on Bnet who says "let's just nuke ISIS".
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Edited by SwankyButters: 11/16/2015 11:46:05 AMYou're right about that, easy to say when you are not the one with war planes flying over your head... However, I'm talking about religious people with large followings, so many here damn other religions without having a closer look at their own... It's that deeper look at whatever nonsense we might believe in, whatever that nonsense might be. These are the real problems in the world, religious and otherwise. Many have beliefs outside of religion that do just as much, if not more harm and we keep right on believing them.
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Implying they would all be coordinated and attacking at once? Not the case
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So what numbers are you thinking makes up this group? 6,000? 60,000? With these numbers, they are going to attack France with 8 people? Is that what you're telling me? Does that make sense to you?
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Edited by Chapstick: 11/16/2015 9:55:06 AMWhat part of uncoordinated do you not understand? I'm not giving any numbers because its literally impossible to tell. If we went by your logic there would only be 8 extremist in all of France...
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Logic dictates, if they could have made a bigger impact... they would have. That is logic. We don't know the numbers but lets take logic into account. When the US attacks a country... How many of our soldiers do we send? Do you not think if they had a TON more people, they wouldn't use them? Maybe they are saving thousands of soldiers for another time? Now that everyone is on alert? Does that make any sense to you?
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Edited by Chapstick: 11/16/2015 10:08:37 AMWow, you have no idea what logic is do you? "If it can be bigger it will be bigger" That's retarded have you ever heard of human error? And I'm really glad you aren't president because apparently you'd be sending everyone in the military to one place. I really can't even right now.
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Where do you get uncoordinated from? You do understand the term right? They did all this within hours of each other and there was a statement it was done. We where did you pull uncoordinated from?
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Wow it's really not that complicated, 8 people can coordinate from Syria but every extremist all across France is not going to be able to organize with 8 randoms who have a plan of there own. Are they supposed to meet at the Internet cafe for terrorists? Or how about the national terrorist convention? These guys knew each other long before getting to France, but once you're inside of France there is no way to tell who is an extremist and who isn't, they don't exactly post on Craigslist "terrorizers wanted here's my number"
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Edited by SwankyButters: 11/16/2015 10:20:03 AMYou miss the point... If one tenth of one percent were terrorist, France would have been devastated. You seem to think they all came from Syria when this is not anything I've read, maybe you've read something I haven't. As well, you act as if we are living in the days of the pony express. ISIS was tweeting about what was going to happen, before it did. There are computers, the dark web and cell phones, hell even pagers would do the trick and that is 20 year old tech but you act as if this could not be done today. If there were 6000 extremist in France, do you really think no one could have gotten word to said extremist or they couldn't have gotten in touch with ISIS? Not sure if you are too young or too old, sometimes either can blind you to what you don't want to see.
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Edited by Chapstick: 11/16/2015 10:26:03 AMWow then go fckn read about it, obviously you're uneducated on the subject. Are you suggesting every n@zi in Germany is friends on Facebook? If there were 6000 terrorist in France they would have no clue who is who. But since you think you're so smart, go post terror plans on the Internet and let me know how that works out for you. The terrorists that post on Twitter are not the same ones in France, they are in syria. if they were in france then they would be tracked down in a heartbeat. stop being naiive
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Edited by SwankyButters: 11/16/2015 10:35:05 AMClearly this is emotional for you but not so much to me. So I can think clearly. Not sure what made you bring up Na zis or what that has to do with today's world? Are they a threat I don't know about? Look, you have to ask yourself, if organizing a group of people is so hard.. how did ISIS happen in the first place? Or any group of that matter? When people are like minded, they find each other and find ways to communicate. Maybe you don't know about ways people communicate, by phone, on the web and other ways without anyone knowing about it. There are a lot of tools for the person looking for them. How do you think these groups recruit people from other countries for that matter? Don't you think that works both ways? I'm not a terrorist and have no plans to be one but if I wanted to be, I bet I could find lots of folks and no one would be any the wiser. You just have to read a bit more about what is possible today and why our very government is tapping into as many ways to get information as they can think of. The reason is because it's actually a little too easy to do today. If it wasn't, they wouldn't bother.
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Edited by Chapstick: 11/16/2015 10:44:19 AMI'm not emotional about it but you really need to go educate yourself before posting. Isis was based in Syria where they are free from western military and influence or at least they were for a long time. There is no way to organize on a large scale, while inside France. It's impossible. I bring up na zi because they are virtually the same thing, the only thing that separates them from normal people is extremist ideology, and unless they want to be taken to jail, they can't go screaming these ideologies from rooftops. These terrorists probably thought they could make a big impact with 8 people and not risk getting caught in the process. There is a reason they didn't organize the attack while they were already in France. It's really just common sense.
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You cursed, I thought you were being emotional. I guess you were just trying to throw knives. ISIS is not all Syrians, right? So how did they recruit the outsiders? The US has people in both Iraq and Afghanistan and some ISIS members came from there, some came from the UK and France so clearly it's not as hard as you think. I really believe it's your lack of understanding about modern ways of communicating in secret... Do a bit of reading about it and I'll read up on my Syria and ISIS, deal?
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Edited by Chapstick: 11/16/2015 11:14:31 AMThere are stories of people trying to escape to Syria all the time just because they are Muslim. And it's not like they are all signing up to join the Isis fan club, these people were born Muslims and they're parents tell them how to think, Isis is more of an ideology than a club, anybody can do something terrible and claim it was on behalf of Isis. The world is not so simple, especially when it comes to religion. And the Internet/electronics are not so safe unless you are outside of the modern world and even then its a stretch. Do you know how bin laden hid for so long? He used notes and corriers, not the Internet or cellphones. Sorry to say you're the one that needs an education :/
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Just a bit of a follow up but THIS is the kind of thing I'm talking about and this is just apps, a more easy and open method. Not trying to start the discussion again, just thought you might find it interesting. If you have anything you would like to share, please feel free, http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/europe/encrypted-messaging-apps-face-new-scrutiny-over-possible-role-in-paris-attacks.html?_r=0
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Well we are at an impasse cause I don't agree with most of what you said and clearly you don't agree with anything I said... Kind of makes this a waste of time.
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You should check out the sites I linked to this guy while trying to convince him that the mass majority of Muslims are regular people https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/173817461/0/0/1
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Edited by SwankyButters: 11/16/2015 9:34:38 AMI saw... Interesting. My best friend growing up was Palestinian and I knew his family and his people. In all honestly I have no use for religion at all but their beliefs were not that much different than any other religion out there. Sure a few things different but still. Their biggest beef was Americas support of Israel for obvious reasons. So having a Palestinian best friend could be why I see this a bit different than your average American. I don't believe in any religion cause they're all Human made and I have no time for that. People want to believe whatever they like... I'm cool with that, so long as it doesn't effect me or hurt anyone... Honestly it's fine. I would never be so arrogant to say there is a god, just like I wouldn't say there isn't a god, also very arrogant. I don't know but I tend to have more respect for some who is moved by something that makes them feel connected with the universe or god or the force, that's great, I love that. What I don't like is someone writing a book about it and telling everyone THIS is the way to live... Religions people can have that, I'd actually rather be beheaded. However, I'm taking a few with me, if I ever am... :-) In any case, this is all about power, always has been. A lust for control over something, it's as old as time itself... Control over something... Like this clip here. This is not much different than what we see today. When we learn to share it, this nonsense will stop. https://youtu.be/qtbOmpTnyOc
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Very nice. I like it.
