you make a very well written post and have a valid argument. however, you kind of lost me at "ignorant try-hards." had you refrained from labeling and stereotyping others, your point might have maintained some credibility. to me, the notion of anyone being a "try-hard" is laughable. attempting to label another gamer as one who takes it too seriously and tries too hard to succeed at it is illogical in a progression based game when everyone shares the common goal of in-game success. the term is used exclusively by those who are not as successful in order to try and shame those who outperform them. call me a dinosaur, but i cut my mmo chops in everquest where the choice was simple: try hard or be a scrub. zero consideration was made for casual gamers, so either you joined a guild that did progression raids every night, or you accepted your fate. enter wow and we so-called try-hards poopsocked our way up and down raid content for years until blizzard decided to nerf progression enough to allow casual raiders to have a sizeable piece of the pie. now gamers are entitled and expect to have top tier items and have even gone so far as to make up derogatory names for the most motivated gamers calling them elitists, poopsocks, try-hards, etc. tbh, i think it's hilarious and would take any of those terms as a compliment to my playstyle. i don't see how anyone can be considered a try-hard in a game that has no actual raid content. 3 man groups, 5 man groups? elle oh elle. the best content we have ever had in destiny is comparable to a wow heroic just for the sheer fact that it requires what is considered a single group worth of players to clear. rest assured, as long as progression based games exist, there will be those of us who have more time to invest in them and as such may have an increased incentive to be successful at playing them. attempting to insult anyone else for having more playtime and/or an increased desire to be competitive in a specific game is childish. [b]TL; DR[/b] good job on showcasing your grammar and vocabulary in an effort to justify your position, but your point is lost due to your apparent hypocrisy. upon further review of your response to others in this thread, you find it agreeable to insult others but are quick to dismiss them when they say something that you deem offensive. communication doesn't work that way.