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8/26/2015 4:11:46 PM
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It's obvious that OP has no idea what consumer protections are.
That quaint little clause does not relieve Bungie, Activision, or any of their affiliates from providing the product that they marketed to us. It does not relieve them of the responsibility to provide a quality product. Nor does it prevent the sharing of or protect them from negative consumer [b]Feedback.[/b]
I run my own business and have just over twenty employees. We have a website with a similar EULA. My attorney's have advised me on the limits of such clauses in an End User Licensing Agreement, and those clauses do not override the Consumer Protection Laws in the US.
If one of my customers could prove in court/mediation that I had abused them, robbed them of product, gouged them for a premium price with a low quality product, etc., I would have to rectify the situation and/or provide restitution, even if it was to the detriment of my business.
In summary, your argument doesn't mean shit, OP. EULA's are worth about as much as a used roll of toilet paper. All they really enforce is that you agree to go to mediation with the company before taking them to court.
That's it.
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But you can do some pretty cool stuff with the cardboard part of the toilet paper
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Consumer protections are one thing. But as a developer Bungie doesn't have to listen to change anything. Imagine a Destiny where all you ever got what DLC and no new weapons. How does that sound for a game. Just keep upgrading your old weapons and armor with each DLC. Sounds kind of boring doesn't it. Bungie has taken the time to evaluate complaints and made changes they feel will enhance the experience of the player. Before everyone judges what's coming, why not experience it first. How many gaming companies give players live gameplay of upcoming DLC? Before I get bashed let me say I'm not happy with all of the changes but I do realize it is a game and if it changes in a way I don't like I will just play something else.
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But the flaw in your argument is the base reason behind the nerf to weapons that won't be able to be carried forward anyway. Bungie is nerfing the Y1 weapons and not allowing them to go forward so that people will be forced to use their Y2 weapons. There are several thoughts on why they've adopted this approach: 1- They believe for some reason that if they allow us to move Y1 weapons/armors forward, the for some reason we'll (as an entire community) completely disregard the fact that new weapons came with the DLC and just never use them. 2- They believe that their new weapons are so weak compared to what they made in the base game, that we won't switch because they're so vastly inferior. As for my first point; never in the history of any online game, single-player RPG, MOBA, etc., has there been a new DLC that launched and had the entirety (or even a majority) of a game's populace completely disregard the new weapons offerings. Never. Not even once. So, why would that happen in Destiny all of a sudden? Second; there may be some truth to that. Now, the argument of "power creep" has surfaced over the last couple of months, and that by weakening everything, they cure the threat of power creep. technically, yes it does, but not fror any reason that resembles "good" in any way. Most every other online game takes natural power creep into their decisions by making changes in the game. In that, the Bungie Defense Force is correct. Where they're wrong, is in [b]how[/b] those games handle power creep. Other games make challenges, bosses, quests, and other areas [b]tougher[/b] to counteract the ever encroaching power creep. they send you on tougher, more in-depth quests. They give old and new Bosses better AI strategies, new powers never before seen, more complex "dungeon" structures to navigate with tougher puzzles, etc. And by tougher, I don't mean that they just continuously increase the HP of the Bosses either. A bigger bullet-sponge does not increased difficulty make. In all of this, we as a community, myself, Carnival, matrix, and many more have warned Bungie and argued against these very points. While they [i]are[/i] the developers, we've got decades upon decades of gaming experience behind us. We've been there for the best changes in the industry, but also some of the worst. We're critical and negative because we are taking our precious time to warn Bungie about the dangers of the negative, bad changes that they're heading for, and then we see all that summarily ignored as they believe that they empirically "know better" than us. Bungie isn't listening to it's own community. They aren't listening here on their own Forums. They aren't listening on Reddit, 4Chan, or any of the professional Game Review sites/Forums. That is what is getting us. But we still post. We are still critical. We still care. So we aren't saying "release a DLC with no new weapons, just questing content because we aren't going to use your new weapons anyway". Far from it. We're saying: "Release your new DLC. Here's *blah* ways to counteract power creep. Here's *blah* ways to make your weapons better. Here's *blah* ways to increase the challenge of Destiny without everything becoming one huge, frustrating bullet sponge". See the difference? I hope you do, because we've been trying to show the difference to Bungie for eleven months now, and we've been ignored the whole time. The proof of that is in the very changes themselves.
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An excellent response and one which is relevant to those who live in the EU too.
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Thanks, you just saved me some time Nox. Exactly what I was going to say.
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I do what I can. :)
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Here I was going to try and say relatively the same thing.. But nothing I could write would be as well put as that : P
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lol Thank you.
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Bump.
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[quote]It's obvious that OP has no idea what consumer protections are. That quaint little clause does not relieve Bungie, Activision, or any of their affiliates from providing the product that they marketed to us. It does not relieve them of the responsibility to provide a quality product. Nor does it prevent the sharing of or protect them from negative consumer [b]Feedback.[/b] I run my own business and have just over twenty employees. We have a website with a similar EULA. My attorney's have advised me on the limits of such clauses in an End User Licensing Agreement, and those clauses do not override the Consumer Protection Laws in the US. If one of my customers could prove in court/mediation that I had abused them, robbed them of product, gouged them for a premium price with a low quality product, etc., I would have to rectify the situation and/or provide restitution, even if it was to the detriment of my business. In summary, your argument doesn't mean shit, OP. EULA's are worth about as much as a used roll of toilet paper. All they really enforce is that you agree to go to mediation with the company before taking them to court. That's it.[/quote] Knowledge is power.
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Edited by Vampire Nox: 8/26/2015 4:22:04 PMI noticed I got down-voted. lmao The blind fanboy's can down vote my post all they like. But like you said, Cmdr; knowledge is power. Very simply, EULA's aren't the blanket-armor that many businesses/corporations seem to think that they are. EULA's get smacked down in court all the time. Fact. As consumers; we have rights and protections along a very, very broad range of situations. Those Conumer Protection Laws will shred and/all EULA's that they go up against.
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Well, in response to that have an up vote! I don't know much about consumer law but it makes sense that a customer shouldn't be asked to hand over all of their rights just because they agreed to something they most likely didn't read in the first place.
