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6/24/2015 9:48:31 PM
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1) for those who are confused; VAT is what we refer to as a sales tax here in the U.S.
2) I would really like to extend an apology on behalf of the few intelligent citizens of the United States. Most of us don't understand that you have a universal - across the board tax nation wide on purchases. The same shirt you buy in Liverpool will cost the same in Bristol, because the taxes are the same. This allows you to include your taxes in the price. We don't have the same luxury here across the pond. We could very literally pay a different VAT purchasing the same item fifty meters away. If bungie were to include [universally] our varied sales taxes in the price of their products, they could drastically make less money selling the same product in New York versus Houston. To make matters even more confusing, the buyer in the U.S. is fully responsible for all taxes associated with the items they purchase. To avoid confusion, sellers advertise the price of the product, and only the product. We are required to figure out the cost of taxes ourselves. The vast majority of Americans will, in fact, pay a higher price then what was advertised by bungie.
3) VAT is not the only tax you will pay on TTK. This is the hardest pill for most people to swallow. Your country (and most) still considers intellectual property as a foreign produced product by foreign employees who work for a foreign company. The UK doesn't care that it costs next to nothing to mass produce, and less than that to import across the ocean. There is no, and never was a free trade agreement between the U.S. And the UK. There will most likely never be one - at least in my lifetime. You will have to pay a tariff on TTK. I'm sorry, but this isn't bungie's fault for this.
I sure hope this clears things up. Keep in mind, bungie will not make more money from you than they would from an American purchasing it in America.
English
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Funny how its the "united states of america" yet each state can have such different laws
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[quote]Funny how its the "united states of america" yet each state can have such different laws[/quote] It's intentionally done this way. Think EU, but if the EU had a little more power.
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Well, point 3 is wrong. There is no import duty on digital games downloaded from the US into the UK. (Actually, that's true of non downloaded games, too.) The only factors in play for the UK price are: exchange rate, VAT, profit margin. Unlike other countries, Activision didn't even need to translate anything, so no added costs there. Not quite sure why you think there are no trade agreements between the UK and the US-much as some people hate it here, we're in the EU, and there are trade agreements between the EU and the US. And, for what it's worth, UK retailers are already selling TTK legendary edition (physical) for about £45 - Activision set a price of £60. This just goes to show that it[i] is[/i] just profit. Otherwise the retailers would be selling at a loss, wouldn't they?
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[quote]Well, point 3 is wrong. There is no import duty on digital games downloaded from the US into the UK. (Actually, that's true of non downloaded games, too.) The only factors in play for the UK price are: exchange rate, VAT, profit margin. Unlike other countries, Activision didn't even need to translate anything, so no added costs there. Not quite sure why you think there are no trade agreements between the UK and the US-much as some people hate it here, we're in the EU, and there are trade agreements between the EU and the US. And, for what it's worth, UK retailers are already selling TTK legendary edition (physical) for about £45 - Activision set a price of £60. This just goes to show that it[i] is[/i] just profit. Otherwise the retailers would be selling at a loss, wouldn't they?[/quote] Yes you do. Under trade tariff section XX - miscellaneous manufactured products, article 95, subsection 04.
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95.04.50.00.00 states that the importing from outside the EU is subject to a third party duty of 0.00% (http://www.gov.UK/trade-tariff/headings/9504) In fact, as far as I can see, all of the 95.04 stuff has that duty level - including coin operated games. Or am I misreading what you are saying and/or what the trade tariff agreement says?
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[quote]95.04.50.00.00 states that the importing from outside the EU is subject to a third party duty of 0.00% (http://www.gov.UK/trade-tariff/headings/9504) In fact, as far as I can see, all of the 95.04 stuff has that duty level - including coin operated games. Or am I misreading what you are saying and/or what the trade tariff agreement says?[/quote] If you read the whole section, it's very vague and includes many things such as consoles along with table top games and... bowling equipment?
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I did read the whole thing. I was referred to it by the claim it showed we paid import duty - and it clearly states that we don't. Feel free to point out the trade tariff category that says that is more appropriate and shows that we do pay import duty.
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Edited by Tagonyst: 7/7/2015 11:30:02 AM[quote]I did read the whole thing. I was referred to it by the claim it showed we paid import duty - and it clearly states that we don't. Feel free to point out the trade tariff category that says that is more appropriate and shows that we do pay import duty.[/quote] My bad, it was under books, music, movies etc. http://m.dutycalculator.com/dc/85220-import-duty-rate-for-video-games-is-3.5/ Here's the interesting part: it's only 3.5%. Although you do pay a higher price in the UK compared to the U.S., you guys are right: the numbers don't add up. You should pay $49.40 before the exchange rate.
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Interesting! Of course, once you know the number, then it's easier to find confirmation: http://www.gov.UK/classifying-computers-and-software But... Maybe we're sort of both right :) 8523.49.5100 applies to video game software delivered on DVD only. 9504.30 applies to cartridges and other games - the duty calculator site you used referred me to 9504.30 when I asked about digital downloads. Not the clearest thing in the world, I admit. I'm still not clear! Whatever the case, the physical edition, if imported, will get import duty added. And this still doesn't explain why I can buy the physical TTK le for less than the digital download :) Anyway, that's enough trade tariff talk, I think... Signing off. Most educational.
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Edited by Dyognes: 7/7/2015 8:28:47 AMDigitial games prices on online stores are high because in the UK retailers aggressively fight on price therefore if the publishers online undercut retail stores l. Retail stores would not support th anymore.
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It's never too late to change the rrp - manufacturers do it all the time. Secondly, I have no idea where you get the idea that a manufacturer can't discount their own goods because of competition laws. I bought my laptop from the manufacturer and they were pushing it with a special offer (£150 off). The only time such rules are ever likely to apply are if the company is viewed as a monopoly in the market - and Activision certainly aren't in the video game business! If you can find me the bit in UK law that backs up your claim, then I'll be most interested in it - because lots of companies seem to infringe it. Including, humourously, Amazon, because they sell their own products at a discount (below rrp) quite a lot.
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Edited by Dyognes: 7/7/2015 8:47:16 AMThey do not want to undercut retailers. As the would lose buisness
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Reference, please, that shows there is a difference. I frequently get offers on my digital download anti virus software from the manufacturer. All I'm asking is for a reference to where you got your official information on the subject. I assume that you had it at some point? I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong, but all the info I have - from UK government websites - doesn't agree with your statement. I must have missed what you found, and I prefer to have the full information, especially when it means it improves my knowledge on a subject.
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Edited by Dyognes: 7/7/2015 8:51:42 AMOk. I bet the anti virus company does not make alot of money from retailers so they don't care if they undercut a store. Game publishers on the other hand do not want to undercut retailers in the uk
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I think it's more that game producers want to maximise their profits. I understand that, and from their point of view, it is clearly a sensible thing to do. I bought the last dlcs for about £10 less than the rrp at the time, simply by shopping around. At the moment the only vendor for the TTK dlc is the psn store. If Activision didn't change the official UK pricing, I will do the same again. Or not by it at all. At the rate the prices are going at the moment, I will be able to buy the physical TTK legendary edition for less than £40 anyway. :) Anyway, what happens will happen. I won't preorder - I want to see what's in the game before spending my money. And fallout 4, or Star Wars may be better value for money/time.
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So why are people complaining just buy a cheaper retailers copy. You may get the Base game and expansions but if it's still cheaper than TTK standalone then so what By not purchasing the overpriced digitial version that shows them the price model doesn't work.
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I agree. But until we can actually buy it cheaper, I think we'll still complain :) I've never understood the frenzy to preorder stuff 3 months in advance. Unless you get something special for doing so (in this case, you don't), what's the point? Each to their own, I guess.
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I think you feign ignorance. The whole idea of pre-ordering stems from reservation in order to ensure that a product is in store for you to collect on the day you want to collect it. Pre-ordering isn't reservation though. Somehow they have managed to change the mechanics of a simple deposit + intention to purchase into a deposit plus price fix. Of course pre-orders then allow retailers to precisely manage their order level from the manufacturer thus allowing them to negotiate themselves better prices and bigger profit margins. Though these days "profit margin" in retailing seems to just be slang for "discount margin". A bigger profit margin allows for bigger price drops vs competitors and perversely the larger their pre-order level the sooner and bigger the potential discounts they can give. The high manufacturer rrps in turn give retailers a nice big space in which to manoeuvre. Eg, a couple of weeks I saw a major UK supermarket retailing brand new Destiny Vanilla for £25. That's probably pure profit for them by now. In fact, they probably lose less by dropping prices and clearing shelves than they do with full storerooms and less room for fresh stock. And all because of a tiny inner hipster voice that so many gamers have that whispers "If you don't get it before all your friends then you're a scrub".
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Oh, I can see the point for retailers, and I can see the point for consumers when something has a limited supply (physical collectors edition). For a consumer, preordering dlc has in this case, as far as I can see, no benefit whatsoever... And I don't expect there to be a lack of legendary editions on the shelf, either, so no benefit preordering that. I've learnt my lesson: I'm going to see what is actual in the content before I part with my money! No preorder from me.
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I think the benefit can only be measured in terms of ones inner hipster. It seems that these days this is an inner voice that is encouraged and embraced by multitudes. "You simply MUST be first" is hardly sanity checked because it has become tenet number 1 in the consumer bible. Of course it's totally insane. The benefit is in sating a need which has been artificially created by people with a financial motive - but I guess for those who suffer this affliction the worst, the benefit in short term self esteem is worth a slightly higher expenditure.
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Exactly my thoughts. Also pre ordering for a physical item you can cancel with no money loss before they dispatch the item. I have no idea about a digitial pre order but If you can't cancel for free again it seems daft to preorder
