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6/15/2015 12:37:01 PM
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Thoughts?
Its eventually going to have to come to this, if Bungie is unwilling to reach a point where they simply stop listening to the Crucible whiners. Because the complaints about PvP weapon balance will NEVER stop. Because comp FPS gamers constantly complain about it around every shooter...and their first instinct whenever they are confronted with any weapon that is new, different, or stands out...is to NERF IT.
Bottomline, is that the needs of PvE players and PvP players are not compatible.
PvP players want to live in a world where (basically) EVERY weapon performs THE SAME. PvE players need to live in a world where weapons get progressively more powerful as the enemies they face grow more powerful. So PvP players have the luxury of living in a world of relatively static enemy threat level, that PvE players do not.
So as long as the weapons systems are linked, NO sort of "balance" in PvP is possible....and any moves to create it will ruin the usefulness of those weapons for PvE. Auto rifles are so bad right now in end-game PvE play, that if it weren't for the ability of Abyss Defiant to disorient Wizards, I would never use one.
But we are reaching something of a breaking point right now, because PvP players are deterimined to yank the teeth out of hand cannons...which are one of the most effective weapons right now for end-game PvE.
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Edited by MAD X H0USE: 6/15/2015 3:13:44 PMThis is by far the best explanation of the differences in mindset affecting Bungie's balancing act that I have ever read. My only comment, and I share it simply to share, not to disagree... The recent complaints regarding hand-cannons really only began (1. After they buffed Thorn, and (2. After they nerfed SUROS and other Auto-Rifles. Bungie went WAY overboard in both instances, and inadvertently caused the imbalance we see today. 95% of Trials players are using Thorn as their primaries. Iron Banner consisted of Thorn, Last Word, and the occasional Red Death. Does this REALLY shock anyone? Personally, I was happy with weapon balancing at launch and feel it shouldn't have been changed. Sure, people were upset by Auto Rifles, but the if map-design is in their favor, why wouldn't they be most effective in most engagements? Outside of all this balancing talk, I'm convinced that a large portion of players who feel the need to nerf or buff one weapon or another are simply incapable of understanding their own play style and selecting a weapon that fits best. Or otherwise incapable of understanding the strangths/limitations of their weapon of choice and repeating the same moves expecting different results. I dunno. To me, Crucible is all about adaptation. If something isn't working for me, I'll switch up weapons and tactics mid-match to find the solution. For some, THEIR performance simply CAN'T be the problem. It's gotta be the other guy.
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Agreed....to a point. 1. Most calls for weapon nerfs are from players who are unable to adapt to a changing meta...or resent the fact that they have to adapt. Feeling that the GAME should change before they should have to change. 2. Most ARs were okay at lauch (they all were OP during the beta). But Suros Regime was OP. Its signature perk allowed many of its users to win fights they had no right to expect to win in the Crucible...and its range and accuracy were excessive for an automatic weapon. In short the weapon needed to its signature perk dialed back....and to be RANGE nerfed. It needed to have its damage drop off faster, and its stability lessened. Instead, Bungie slapped ALL ARs with both the range nerf that Suros needed AND a baseline damage nerf. So every AR in the game saw its damage output cut by 10-20%. It was successful in getting people to use Pulse Rifles...but at the expense of turning ARs into the new "pulse rifles". 3. Thorn is not the problem. Thorn is only a problem, because Bungie BROKE ARs with patch 1.1.1. Prior to that patch, any Thorn user who strayed in too close, would routinely get outgunned by most ARs....and Suros' signature perk would offset Thorn's DoT. So Thorn was largely relegated to the hands of a few players who could really use it as a precision instrument and realize its full potential But once Bungie broke ARs....there was nothing in the game that could shotgunners at-bay. So people turned to hand cannons and long-range shotguns to fill the gap. Plus Thorn is easier to come by than The Last Word or Hawkmoon...and Xbox users don't even have Hawkmoon as a option. So for them it is the Thorn and TLW show. So the answer here is not to nerf Thorn...but do BUFF ARs and return them back to their rightful place as the dominant weapons of close-to-mid-range combat. That will fix your hand cannon problem...and MOST of your shotgun problems in the Crucible.
