ARs are still technically useable but they're simply noncompetitive now. They kill slower than any other class of weapon out there. Low RoF high impact autos are beaten out at ALL ranges by high RoF low impact pulse rifles, low RoF high impact pulse rifles (Red Death and Three Little Words), scout rifles (so long as you have a skilled hand), and hand cannons... That's absurd. So far the only auto that seems to come even close to doing its job right is the SUROS Reegime without focus fire, the perk that pretty much DEFINES the weapon!

I'd argue that they are still competitive, but there is only certain situations in which that would apply. First of all, I'd like to say, the new auto rifles that seem to be everywhere now-a-days, peashooters I like to call them, are useless. In PvP you NEED high impact, guns like Atheon's Epilogue only work if they are absolute point blank. In order to be effective at any range outside of melee, you need to use one with proper impact. Secondly, what makes Auto-rifles strong in my books is player movement and team co-ordination. I play with a few guys and we use call outs and have different people using different guns. Our auto'er probably has the most kills out of all of us only counting team play and not solo. The big advantage is that you can be sloppy with aim with an auto rifle, as long as you're not staring down the barrel of another player's gun. When he flanks, it gives us all the opportunity to move around, snipe, or close distances, and he picks up a kill or 2 before retreating and letting us clean off anyone stupid enough to chase him. Thirdly, something that came to me while taking a break from Destiny, while playing CS:GO I learned about angles of vision and peeking. There are tons of spots in Destiny where you can peek people easily without exposing a lot of your body to hit. Most maps have at least 2 spots that you can essentially dance from behind the wall/box and shoot, so you hit headshots every time you pop out, and it makes it a nightmare for people who use weapons with low rates of fire. Lastly, it kinda goes without saying, you can't survive if you're being killed too fast. Destiny is a team game, and while one auto rifle might not pick up a kill, 2 or 3 going in together is more than enough to clear a room. This isn't solo queue, you're expected to work as a team. [b]TL;DR[/b]: Auto rifles only have a few spots where they are useful, mainly around playing as a team with good communication and movement.

...Any weapon can be effective with a properly organized team and pulse rifles are even better at peppering enemies from cover. Pulse rifles and hand cannons can do everything you mentioned only more effectively and in the case of pulse rifles arguably more easily. There really isn't anything ARs do better than pulse rifles, so how are they competitive? In the hands of equally skilled players on equally skilled teams a team full of pulse rifles will have an easier time of it than a team of ARs or a mix of the two.

AR's are MUCH more forgiving than pulse rifles. If you pull the trigger with a pulse rifle you are committing to 3 shots, a slight variation as to where the bullets actually hit, and most importantly, the time it takes to re-fire another 3 bullets, which involves releasing the trigger, re-aiming, and pulling the trigger again. If you miss one bullet, chances are you will miss all 3. But with auto rifles, there is no delay in 90% of the cases. Guns like the V8 have just the right amount of delay that you can continuously re-adjust your aim between each shot, leading to much more accurate "sprays". But you never have to release the trigger. I think your first sentence explains everything. [quote]Any weapon can be effective with a properly organized team[/quote] AR's are effective. They aren't like they used to be where you could easily (and I mean easily) go into a 1v2 situation and come out alive. I used to use the Suros before all the nerfs and 1v2's were no sweat, 1v3's were challenging, but still possible and a 1v4 was just lucky. The fact that one person could take down half of the other team without using a super is why they don't deal as much damage. Just because they aren't the "go-to run and gun" guns anymore doesn't mean they are useless like people are complaining about. You never should have been able to 1v3 teams, and people just got too used to doing that.

Being useable with a GOOD TEAM doesn't make them balanced or competitive It makes them USABLE, like pulse rifles used to be. The fact that ARs require a team of players to remedy their shortcomings is ridiculous. I'm not asking to be able to 1v2+ people, I'm asking to actually be able to 1v1 a red death or thorn with a suros or hard light at close range. Is it too much to ask for ARs to be competitive in their supposed effective range(close to mid)? Besides scout rifles you shouldn't have trouble keeping accurate, sustained fire on a target. In the hands of basically any player, a pulse rifle will do the same thing as any AR only better. I don't feel that the skill required to use the weapon is even relevant because of how low it is on basically any weapon. you feel that ARs are fairly balanced right now, as basically beginner's weapons or weapons for those who don't care to aim, or as situational primaries in a game of jack of all trade primaries, then I don't really know what to say.

I don't think AR's are balanced, I just think people are WAY over exaggerating where they currently stand. People constantly say they are "nerfed to oblivion" and "not worth using" that they can't pick up a single kill with them, and to that I say BS. What will happen is Bungie will take that and make auto rifles a large buff since they are seemingly so weak, and they will be back where they started. Do they need to be made stronger? Yes. By much? No. I feel like a lot of people are going in to crucible with AR's with low impact, since that's what most AR's since the Dark Below DLC seem to have. Hard Light is a TERRIBLE PvP gun. If you get a headshot and it hits less than high 20's, it's not worth using. I've been able to 1v1 Thorns, TLW's, Red Deaths, basically all the main go to guns with legendary AR's with high impact. I don't win all the time, but I do win a fair percentage. I suggest looking outside of only exotic weapons, because I've found some success whereas you're insinuating that you aren't able to 1v1 a Red Death or Thorn with your Suros. The Suros' special perk, the one that slows down RoF when you zoom in for an increase in damage, is what causes it to fall off. Try experimenting with guns that offer high impact without the cost of reduced fire rate.

I've tried the Vanquisher, Hardlight, Suros with focus fire, Suros without focus fire, and Up For Anything. You're right about Suros, it fairs much better without focus fire (sad considering it more or less defines the weapon), though I imagine that'll change in Iron Banner. Vanquisher is on the better end of ARs along with no focus Suros for sure. Up For Anything is interesting though not that great atm. Hardlight is and always has been disappointing, though hopefully they'll fix that. You're right, ARs don't need a big buff, but they do need something in order to have a real place in competitive play again.

I was completely done with Auto Rifles until getting a Vanquisher VIII drop. It was going to be dismantled until the unusually high impact was noticed. The 1.1.1 changes made my Epilogue, For the People, Do-Gooder, and miscellaneous ARs all defunct. Currently testing it out. Did Bungie buff the New Monarchy AR?

While you make some good points its relatively obvious the auto rifles were nerfed to a point where in PvE and PvP everything else is plainly better to use. Like your saying, its like the Bungie Halo games now where you could certainly use auto rifles to some success (especially the plasma pistol/assault rifle, like you were saying) however this in my opinion is not the way auto rifles should be because that means the precision rifles dominate not only longer ranges but the range auto rifles are suppose to rule. Hand cannons can just as easily compete in auto rifle range and a bit further but now that the auto rifles have recieved yet another nerf the advantage for them is non-existent. Auto rifles have always been my favorite to use because rapid fire guns and close range combat is my favorite playstyle but if Bungie won't budge in the PvP arena then at least make them better in PvE so I can feel good about using them there.