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Edited by TheArtist:
10/18/2018 2:57:06 PM
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They can't....because you have two definition of "decent matchmaking" in this community.
Some of us (like me) want to play in competitive matches. I like close games, where I face people of my own skill level who test me and push me to get better....but are close enough to my own skill level that I can learn from my mistakes. IOW, I want SBMM.
The problem is you have a lot of high-skill players and streamers who rail against SBMM and demand that MM be based on Connection quality. For some of them, this is to reduce long MM times....and/or poor performance due to poor connection quality.
But for others, this is just a wish to pub-stomp and appear dominant. Because CBMM serves them up a steady stream of players less skilled than they are....and who cannot give them a competitive match. So they get the crap kicked out of them. These players want to win....but have little interest in actually competing.
For most of Destiny 1, Bungie fought to keep SBMM. But---because of the overall poor quality of the product in Y1 of Destiny 2---Bungie finally gave in and removed SBMM.
So now you have streamer's stomping players who barely know which end of the controller to point at the console.....and clan teams pub-stomping randoms.
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Preach it !!!!
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kellygreen45 your KD is 1.0 with your last 25 games being a 0.8, you are not affected by skill based matchmaking besides occasionally being protected from matching with an actual good player. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/19/2018 7:12:21 PMActually you might want to read the ENTIRE thread before popping off there champ. You come off looking like less of a fool. [u][i]"Matchmaking doesn't affect "half the playerbase". It only affects the 10-15% at the extremes." [/i][/u] Anything other "revelations" you'd like to (rudely) share??
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I read your original post. I'm not going through its 36 replies.
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Fine. Then look like an ass accusing me of something I never said, and actually said the exact opposite of a few posts later. Your call.
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[quote] But for others, this is just a wish to pub-stomp and appear dominant. Because CBMM serves them up a steady stream of players less skilled than they are....and who cannot give them a competitive match. So they get the crap kicked out of them. These players want to win....but have little interest in actually competing. [/quote] THIS ^^^^^^
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Want a real competitive experience? Play overwatch. They even show you the sr of each team before matches. Both teams have equal number of fireteams 95% of the time. Voice chat actually works. There is nothing competitive about Destiny. There never will be with bungie as the developing crew.
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Overwatch was built from the ground-up to be an e-sport and isn't trying to drag a loot-based RPG behind it. People keep trying to force Destiny to have a "competitive PVP" experience because people won't let go of the legacy of Halo.
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Yeah Overwatch makes the Destiny 2 multiplayer experience look like amateur hour. Actually, I'd expect more out of amateurs.
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Well, I hate Sbmm because the sheer amount of lag makes the game near unplayable. The connection always seems to favour one teams over the other. Their shotguns will work, but yours won't. It's fecking awful :(.
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Part of it is the inconsistency that can result from peer-to-peer connections. But part of it is also people deliberately monkeying around with the network connections to get a competitive advantage. Whch is why Bungie has to swing the banhammer at regular intervals.
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It's not people monkeying around with connections, we have to accept the truth here. When you are playing with or against people from different continents on p2p, there is going to be lag. Enough lag to determine the outcome of matches. Cbmm will always be the way to go on p2p. Bad players can always improve, but you'll never compete with people who can tank damage. I wish we could have the best of both worlds, but it's one or the other unfortunately, and I feel Cbmm is far better and much more fair to the player base. :(
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Bad players can't improve when they're just instastomped. I'm a lifelong FPS player and I hold a decent rank in Overwatch, but I am absolutely destroyed every single time I venture into quickplay. It's a thoroughly miserable experience. And I know I'm not that bad at games like this. Right now I'd bet 95% of the wins go to 5% of the playerbase. I would take bad ping over the current experience any day of the week.
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[quote]but I am absolutely destroyed every single time I venture into quickplay.[/quote] Because if you aren't getting stomped due to differences in individual ability because of the lack of SBMM..... ...you're getting stomped because of team tactics being used on you because you keep running into pub-stomping clan teams.
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1. I did acknowledge that bad connections are real...and Bungie's reliance on p2p networking for this game makes it an issue. 2. Don't kid yourself. You still have people out there manipulating the networks. Although Dossing and dDossing may be the current rage in an effort to win in competitive play list matches and Trials by booting people from the lobby..... ...I guarantee you still have people who are lagswitching and other such nonsense. 3. Pure CBMM is pennywise and dollar foolish...which is why the vast majority of online competitive games are moving away from it. CBMM is a bad long-term bet because it gives perfect conditions to a small subset of hardcore, high-skill players....but at the expense of everyone else. You shit all over low-skill players....and you create this massive barrier to entry to new players. So game's stagnate....lose players to attrition....and then can't replace them because you shit all over the players who want to join the game to replace them. ..and when you shit over those players, a small number will power through and "get better'. But the vast majority will simply quit...and go play a game that shows more respect for whether or not they are having fun. Which is exactly what I did when I came back to consoles from PC back in 2013...and got thrown to the wolves by Battlefield 4. After a bout 10 days of an absolutely MISERABLE play experience....I took the disk out of my PlayStation, and went and played a different game. [quote] wish we could have the best of both worlds, but it's one or the other unfortunately, and I feel Cbmm is far better and much more fair to the player base. :([/quote] I suspect you mean more "fair" to you. IOW, you get the conditions you want....at (frankly) the expense of someone else being forced to always have to play people who are substantially better than they are.
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Edited by xKCz: 10/19/2018 7:53:36 AM[quote] But the vast majority will simply quit...and go play a game that shows more respect for whether or not they are having fun. [/quote] Yet you'd have half the playerbase gated off to protect their fee fees. So they can't be matched with anyway? I don't give a shit about stomping 'weaker' players, hell, I'm one of them lol. I spend most of my time in comp with my friends playing against people my level or better usually. What I actually want, is for my shit to register on a consistant basis. What you're actually advocating for, is a shit tier near unplayable lag fest experience for everyone, because you can't handle getting your ass stomped every few matches. News flash chief, getting rolled happens to nearly everyone in this game from time to time. No one is immune from it.
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[quote]Yet you'd have half the playerbase gated off to protect their fee fees. So they can't be matched with anyway?[/quote] Matchmaking doesn't affect "half the playerbase". It only affects the 10-15% at the extremes. The problem is that----because of social media----the few percent at the top DOMINATE the airwaves, and FRAME the debate (to serve their own interests). So you have hardcore players and streamers who throw out the sort of exaggerated (and not true) 'statistics" like you just did....and argue that CBMM is "best for the game and the community". When the fact is that its just best for them. ...and SBMM does not "gaurentee" poor connections or poor performance. In fact, its not even and "either-or" proposition. You can have both CB and SB MM. The issue is that most of those at the top want to dominate those below them, and don't want to have to put in the effort to play those of their own skill level. While they tell new players and low-skill players to SHUT UP, and accept constantly having to play people who are dramatically better than themselves. They hypocritically demand that others put up with what they themselves won't. When they have to play someone of their onw skill level its a "punishment". When the new or low skill player has to play someone so much better that they can't even compete....its shut up and "get good".
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I had some fun in battlefield 4, though Battlefield 1 was the best one so far.
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I’ll pretend you never said BF1 was the best. BFBC2>any other BF.
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i never played BC2's mp...
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You’ve missed out on a great game. Very good maps and game play.
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[i][quote]..and when you shit over those players, a small number will power through and "get better'. But the vast majority will simply quit...and go play a game that shows more respect for whether or not they are having fun.[/quote][/i] Yep. Good summary.
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I meant what I said. Whats with the snippy attitude?
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/18/2018 9:26:09 PMNot being snippy. Just being real. Every 3-6 months Bungie has to resort to a ban wave to deal with cheating in PVP. That cheating almost always takes the form of network manipulation. So to insist that all the connection quality problems that PVP players see is due to long ping times and natural packet loss (poor connections) is simply not true. You also have bad connections because part of the network is under the control of the player, and toying around with it can give an competitive advantage (at least until you get caught at it.). Also people who argue SBMM versus CBMM are always arguing from self-interest. Because the experience of the AVERAGE player under SBMM and CBMM are almost indistinguishable. Under CBMM, you'll get crispy connections....and competitive matches...but with the odd blowouts. Under SBMM you'll get very competitive matches....and solid connections...but with the odd clunker. The fight over matchmaking is ALWAYS about the extremes...and who it is that gets the best conditions....and who gets stuck with the short end of the stick. The best players always call for CBMM. Because it gives them crispy conditions...and it also gives them a steady stream of players who are not as skilled as they are. So they get the best play conditions, AND they get to have success pretty much regardless of what effort level they put out on any given day. Whereas new players and low-skilled players get shit on. They get good connections. But they are constantly being paired with people who are much better than they are...and they are basically used as cannon-fodder to be farmed by the rest of the player base. An experience that is no reasonable person's idea of fun . The best players rail against SBMM. Partly because they wind up with longer matchmaking times and laggier connections if they are way out on the skill curve, or the matching for skill is too tight. But a VERY large part of it is that they also wind up playing people who are just as good as they are...and begin to experience how obnoxious it can be to play against someone who is really good. Now...if they want to experience success....they need to buckle up their chinstraps and compete. ..and some people don't find that kind of competition to be fun. They'd rather beat up on noobs. In fact look further down this thread and you'll see someone who insisted that having to play people of your own skill level was being "punished" for being good at the game. That playing other good players was a "punishment" for being good...rather than the REWARD for being good. ...and he is far from alone among shooter gamers in feeling that way. They dont' want "sweaty" matches. They want to dominate people who can't really fight back. That's their notion of fun.
