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Edited by Omnitron310: 12/4/2014 9:39:31 AM
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How can anyone defend the exotic reset?

Warning: long post It baffles me that there are people out there that are okay with this proposed way of handling the exotics. Seriously, I don't understand how anyone could think this was an okay thing to do. So, with the greatest possible respect, allow me to explain why you are wrong. First off, let me just say that I am not one of the whiners that cries for a nerf every time I get killed by a gun, or bitches at Bungie for every little thing, expecting it to be fixed right away. I love this game, and despite a lot of the complaints about it (some valid, some less so), I still enjoy playing it immensely. Of course I do, otherwise I wouldn't care about this ridiculous reset at all. I actually think that many of the changes and patches Bungie have done have been for the best (with the exception of a few, and of course the bugs they introduced). For the most part, the nerfs and buffs to exotics have been good, especially in this last patch. The ability to buy materials for marks is also great addition. I don't agree with removing the old exchange of materials for marks (why not have both), but I definitely prefer the new option to the old one. I also approved of the new way of levelling exotics. It allows you to get them powered up quicker than legendries, which is fitting as they are meant to be more powerful, but it still forces you to work if you want to max them out. The fact that it will now cost strange coins to fully level them up also creates more interesting decisions and means that people may stop just buying everything Xur sells every week as they need to save their coins for upgrades. My point with saying all this is to prove that I actually think about my opinions and what I'm saying, and this is not just a knee-jerk reaction to what Bungie has said. I have read all the notes, and now want to make an informed argument as to why Bungie's plan to reset all exotic progress is extremely stupid. Now, the argument I see most proponents use is that it is optional. Your exotics are not hard-reset, you need to voluntarily go to Xur and but the upgrade to reset them. This is true, but these people seriously need to reconsider their definition of the word "optional". It's also an "option" to just keep on using green gear all game. It's an "option" not to level anything at all. It's an "option" to stay at lvl 20 by not equipping armour with light. The point is that just because these things are an "option" (as in, they are possible to do), no one in their right mind would ever do any of them. The whole point of this game is to make progress, and that means getting better gear and levelling it up so you can do harder challenges and remain competitive, in order to get better rewards. Rinse and repeat. The other thing is that people want to finish their collection. There is a set amount of the 'best' (exotic) gear in the game, and each piece can be upgraded a fixed amount. Therefore, of course people are going to want to collect all of them and max them out as much as they can. It's called being a completionist, and it's the main driving force for most people to keep playing a game after they have already experienced all the content. Let's face it, In Destiny, once you are high-levelled, that is all there is to do; get all the upper legendries and exotics and upgrade them. So, the "option" of leaving your existing exotics sub-par and watching them all become obsolete is not really an "option" at all. Want to do the new raid? You'd better have re-upgraded all your exotics. Want to have any chance in the next Iron Banner? I hope you re-grinded to max all of them out because otherwise you will be taken apart by people that did. Calling it an "option" is a total fallacy and if you think about it for even half a second, you will realise that it is a flawed and irrelevant argument. So, what should Bungie do? The second argument I see is people saying something like "you just want to be handed powerful stuff for no effort?", or "you want good gear, you have to work" or any number of things along those lines. That's another dumb response. I don't think anyone is saying Bungie should just upgrade all your exotics to DLC level for free. Of course not. Like I said already, the fun in this game comes from working to improve your gear. So handing out free upgrades would be almost as self-defeating as resetting. I think it's obvious that the best solution is to add one or more upgrades beyond those that are there already, WITHOUT ALTERING WHAT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY UNLOCKED. I actually cannot believe I am having to say this when it's so, so obvious. Why would anyone even consider an alternative solution, like resetting all your progress? You want a weapon to power up beyond its exiting level? Add some more upgrades to unlock. Now, make these upgrades hard to acquire, for sure. People shouldn't just be handed things for no effort, so make these last one or two nodes a real investment of time and resources. Make them cost more XP, more resources, more exotic shards. Heck, make them take 10 exotic shards if that's what you want. People don't mind grinding, as long as they are actually progressing. What Bungie seems to fail to understand is that people will NOT want to grind just to get back to the same level they were at before. Taking everything away and forcing people to re-earn it is not adding new content or improving the game in any way. All it will do is frustrate and infuriate people who worked hard to get to where they are now. This brings me onto another point, which is the unforgiveable, slimy, insidious way that Bungie announced these changes. So a few days ago, with the new patch, they changed the way exotic upgrading works, making you now need exotic shards but no ascendant mats. I, along with I expect many others, went "oh wow, great, I can finally max out a bunch of my exotics". I had a load of spare ones lying in my vault already. I didn't want to just break them down for a small number of ascendant mats, when legendries do that just fine, and I was thinking I might give them to one of my other characters when they are levelled up. This update comes out though, and I immediately pull them out, break them down for shards, and max out three of my exotics in one go. Who wouldn't in this situation? Bungie has given us a new tool, so of course we use it. Then, a few days later, once they are sure that everyone has done that, they announce that actually all the pre-DLC upgrading we do is meaningless, and will be lost with NO COMPENSATION if we want to get our guns to the actual max level. So all those exotics we just broke down are essentially gone forever, and if we want to go through the nightmare of resetting and levelling up everything again, guess what, we have to grind even more to get more exotics or strange coins for exotic shards. It's just another way of artificially inflating the time people play, and it is done not by adding more incentive, but by deleting progress. Bungie may as well have just wiped every spare exotic from everyone's vault; it would have had the same effect. So, that's my rant. Long, I know, but I think it had to be said. I really wish people who are defending this decision would open their eyes and realise we don't just have to settle for whatever Bungie feeds us. They HAVE shown that they are willing to listen to feedback, and I am positive that if we as a community are united in our opposition to this laughably bad idea, Bungie will alter course and give us a proper solution. I will say it again here for clarity: JUST ADD SOME EXTRA, HARD TO OBTAIN UPGRADE NODES TO EVERY EXISTING EXOTIC WITHOUT WIPING OUR PROGRESS. To anyone who is still in favour of the reset, I want to hear a good, well-reasoned argument for why you think a reset is PREFERABLE to simply adding on more upgrade nodes. tl;dr: Bungie are screwing us over, not just with their planned exotic reset, but with the way they announced it after the change to the way exotics are levelled. We don't have to just accept it when there are infinitely better solutions out there.

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  • Amen

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  • I read "warning: long post"...

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  • Your weapon starts of with higher damage than it allready had and is easier to level to get perks back, did not bother reading your post as it's the same irrelevant moaning allready going on, you now have a way to make your favorite exotics usable in the new hard content. The weapons are not reset they are improved then needed some work less than before nobody knows how much yet to get the perks back, if you are not doing hard content then don't bother upgrading your weapons will be just as good ass before

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  • This game tried to have a mmo aspect so I understand the aspect for mmo whenever a dlc drops ur old weapons are useless buttttt u can reset them to be better

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  • I didn't read the whole thing because am lazy so if you mentioned this my bad bro. With the new reset your weapon will [i][b][u]START[/u][/b][/i] with a weapon damage of around 302 or something. It will also be easier to level the perks. Thats why am personally not upset.

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    • I think the key to this is people are forgetting that this is a fps mmorpg...be thankful they allow you to upgrade your weapons/armor past their current ability. Most other games, current equipment would become utterly worthless with a new level cap and equipment available.

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      • The fact that it's an option is all I need

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        • They could have left old exotics behind at the same stats. They didn't, so I support it. You people are dumb lol

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          • Just don't reset them. I won't be.

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          • In fairness it isn't a complete reset. The guns get 'reset' to stronger than your max. All you're losing is the perks, which based on their "less experience to level" statement, should not be hard to reach. I don't like the reset, but it's not a big deal on a per-weapon basis. Just do one at a time.

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          • When you reset your exotic weapons the damage starts at 302. So although you will have to work for the perks again, the damage will be higher at new "stock" lvl.

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            • Because the base value of the gun starts higher than your maxed out version when u reset the gun or gear it's value starts at over 300. At least there's an option to raise its value

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              • Edited by Dernaus: 12/6/2014 11:55:47 AM
                I honestly didnt read your post but i dont mind a reset becuse they give you an option to bring your favourite weapons on par with the new ones its nothing you are forced to do just saying. This is not to brag but i had my fair share of items in the game and there is no way in hell i am gonna upgrade all these again for the heck of it i probably end up dismantling most of them it all depends on how much vault space they give us. http://imgur.com/aR15bL3

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                • I, like you, was not one to write long posts and fall into a complaining category but when this news came out I felt exactly like you. Excellent post. Thanks for sharing it. I'm curious on your thoughts about new 2.0 exotics dropping Monday but people who had 1.0 exotics of the same weapon have to pay a fee to get it to 2.0. That part bugs me and feels the most punishing to legacy players who were successful in the game. Again, like you said this is not to say we should not have to work to get our 2.0 exotic maxed, but it feels like Bungie is purposely invalidating how many exotics some of us have. The actions only adversely impact legacy players, not new players. I know online games eventually give boosters to new arrivals who join the game, but I expect it to be a balanced boost and in this case I don't see how new people are that much behind because this isn't really an expansion compared to other 'expansions' we've seen in the industry. Most expansions give you a lot of new gear and a complete new world to use your more upgraded gear. This one feels more like DLC. Plus, the main focus is the raid, a location where you can't grind and get XP. As a result, where do we upgrade our old gear? The same places we've been doing it the last 3 months. That's not hard for new people but for legacy players it starts feeling tedious. I want a good challenge. I don't want stuff given to me. A good challenge is not taking the challenges I've already mastered and just doubling the busy work in them. That's an artificial extension of the game. A good challenge is giving me something I haven't done yet. It feels like it is a short cut. Thanks again for a great post.

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                • You're right, very long post. I gave up after the first few lines.

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                • People are buttheads. It's like they can't see that there are better options. Anyway, BUNGIE CAN DO NO WRONG!!

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                • Very well written, but no matter how much we will rant they are not going to do anything about it. Why.... you ask? It is very easy to see 'greedy corporates'. Thats how I would chose to define this update. You see the Holiday season is just about to start and this is their way to get more people into destiny. So if you had the Ice Breaker for instance from the starting weeks come dlc a new player who gets the Ice Breaker and you who turned his Ice Breaker to Xur for the upgrade will actually be holding a same weapon. Your grind was multiplied by ZERO. [i]Why did you the make mistake of purchasing our game on day one?[/i] Plus IB 3 and vanguard level 30 gear is actually a free pass to the newer players to experience the game what day one owners were able to experience after weeks and weeks of grinding. The quality of the gameplay with degrade with so many idiots spamming lfg sites using vanguard light 30 gear. We weren't able to get to light 30 without playing the raid multiple time. This is what would attract more players as essentially you having grinded 300+ hours and a new player who gets the game after dlc can have the same level weapons just as yours.. In some cases even better compared to the weapons you still haven't turned to Xur. This game is probably the worst case of Corporate greed I have ever witnessed in my gaming life. Bungie for some reason has sold their values and morality to the corporates and have joined the leagues of Ubisoft and EA.

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                  • I don't mind the reset itself so much (although losing the perks of the exotic does suck, that's what makes the gun special in the first place and took a lot of grinding to unlock). What I do mind is that it sounds like turning in a maxed out exotic grants no bonus over turning in one that never had a single experience point invested into it. I have a Universal Remote in my vault that I have never touched. If I decide to turn it into Xur, I should not end up with the same weapon as someone who turns in a fully maxed out one, because then that person really did waste all their time and effort they put into that weapon if that is the case. I think you should either ONLY be allowed to trade in maxed exotics for the 2.0 version, or, you need to get something in return for turning one in that is maxed. Maybe already have the first perk unlocked, or getting back some shards. Something.

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                  • If you have legendary armor, light level 27 max, can you upgrade it when the DLC comes out or do you need to buy a new armor with higher light level for that spot?

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                  • Of course, I'd prefer a better method to bring my exotics up to par with the new ones, but this method isn't a big deal. It's not like it takes that long to fully upgrade a weapon.

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                    • Like these [spoiler]░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓▓███████▓▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░░░▓██████▓▓▓▓▓██████▓░░░░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░████▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓████░░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░███▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓██▒░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░██▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██▓░░░░░░ ░░░░▒██░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██░░░░░ ░░░░██░░░▒▒▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒▓███▓░░█▓░░░░ ░░░██░░▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▒░░░░░░░░░░▒▓███████▓░█▒░░░ ░░██░▒███████▓▒▒░░░░░░░░▒██████████▓▓█░░░ ░░█░▒██████████▓░░░░░░░▒██████▓▒▒▓██░██░░ ░██░██░░░░░▓▓▓███▒░░░░░█████░░░░░░░██░█░░ ░█░██░░░░░░░░▓▓██▓░░░░░░██▒░░░░░░░░░▓░██░ ▒█░▓░░░░░░░░░░▓██░░░░░░█▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓█░ ▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██░░░░█▓░░░░░▒▒▒░░░░▒░░█░ █▓░░░░░░░▓███▓▓░░▒█░░░█░░░▒██▓▓▓█░░░░▓░█░ █▒▒░░░░░█▓░▒▒▒▓█▓░▒▒░░▓░░█▓▓▓██▓▓█░░░▓░█▒ █░▒▒░░░█▓▓████▓░█▒░▒░░▓░█▓███████▓▓░░█░█▓ █░░▓░░▒█████████▓█░▒░░▒░█▓███████▒███░░█▓ █░░█▒▓█▓█████▓▓▓█░░▒░░▒░░█▓▒▒▒░░░▒███░░▓█ █░░▒███▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▒░░░░▒░░▒░░░░▓▓▓▓▓▓▒░▒██░░█ █▒░▓▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒░░▒▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░█▓░█ █▓░▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒░░░▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓░█ █▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒░░░▒░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒░█ ▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░░░░█ ▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░▒█░░░░░░░░░░░░█ ▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░█▓░░░░░░░░░░░██░░░░░░░░░▓░█ ▓█░░░░░░░░░░▓██▒░▓░░░░░░░█░▓▓██░░░░░░░█░█ ▒█░▒░░░░░░▓██░░█░██▓░░░░███▓░░██▓░░░░█▓░█ ░█░░█░░░▓██▓░░░▒▓▒███▓▓██░▒░░░░░██▓▓█▓░░█ ░█░░░█████░░░░░░░░███████░░░░░░░░████░▓░█ ░█▒░░░▓███▒░░░░░░████▒▓███▒░░░░░▓███░░▓░█ ░█▓░░░▓▒███▒░▒▓█████▒░░█████████████░▒▓██ ░██░░░░▓░██████████▒░░░░█████████▒█░░▓█▓█ ░▓█░░░░░▓░██████████████████████▒▓█░░█░▒█ ░▒█░░░░░▓▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒█░░██░█▓ ░░█░░░░░░██░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓█▒░▒█░░█▓ ░░█▓░▒░░░░█████████▓▓▓▓▓██████▓▓█░░█▒░░█░ ░░▓█░▒▓░░░▒█░░▒▒▓▓▓██████▒░░░░░█░░█▓░░▒█░ ░░░█░░▓█░░░▓▓░░░░░░░▓███▒░░░░░▓▓░▒█░░░██░ ░░░██░░██░░░█▒░░░░░░░███░░░░░░█░░█░░░░█▒░ ░░░░█▓░░██░░░█▒░░░░░▓███▒░░░░█▒░█▒░░░██░░ ░░░░▒█▒░░██░░░█░░░░░████▓░░░▒▓░▓▓░░░▓█░░░ ░░░░░▓█▓░░▓▓░░░█░░░░█████░░░░░░▓░░░▓█▒░░░ ░░░░░░▓██░░▒░░░░▓░░░▓███▓░░░░░▓░░░▓█▓░░░░ ░░░░░░░░██▒░░░░░░░░░▒███▓░░░░▒░░░██▓░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░███▒░░░░░░░██▒░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░░▒██▓░░░░░░░███░░░░░░▓██░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░░░░▓██▓░░░░░▓██░░░░░██▓░░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███▒░░░░█▒░░▒███░░░░░░░░░░░ ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░████▓▓█▓████░░░░░░░░░░░░░[/spoiler]

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                    • It was on different than doing prestige if cod. Reset everything just for an emblem and gamer tag. I'm not keen on getting the perks again for better fire power. I'd rather an extension to the upgrade tree with and extra perk. Seeing as though most exotic armor comes with 3 perks it should be the same.

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                    • Edited by Ssj3barry: 12/6/2014 11:55:50 AM
                      I think it's fine, having the option to keep our favourite weapons relevant can't just be given to us. And it's a faster upgrade than what we are used to so meh it's not ideal but at the same I don't see the big fuss.

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                    • The main issue is the delay in the release of all the information surrounding it. Instead of releasing all of it at once, they broke it up across three separate news posts spread days apart. First, they told us that we need to break down exotics or buy the shards to max out exotic gear. So of course, people started to dismantle exotics for shards so they could finish maxing their gear. Then, they told us that the expansion will allow us to upgrade our exotics to new 2.0 versions which have the ability to get stronger than old ones. They told us that we would need exotic shards to do this, which made a lot of people unhappy because they had just broken down exotics and spent the shards for no reason. Finally, probably as damage control, they released the rest of the information showing that the upgraded exotics start out with higher base stats than maxed un-upgraded exotics. This helped a bit, since upgrading means you're not going from something powerful to something useless until you grind it up again. They will also gain experience quicker, which means the grind to unlock the perks is shorter as well. If Bungie had released all this information together in a single news post, the outcry would be far less than it is. They have also been releasing information through Twitter, information that was never in the news posts where most people will be looking. This division of information is a perfect example of how not to relay information between developers and the community, and Bungie seriously needs to work on improving how they gets the news out if they want to prevent more situations like this.

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                    • "That's the end of my rant" *types three more paragraphs*

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                    • Sure there's the option to watch your maxed exotics become "obsolete" as you say, but if you don't want to reset your shit in order to stay relevant there's new exotics coming that can be upgraded to 32 straight away so why cry about it (long as rant starting with I'm not a whiner) if you want the exotics you have suck it up and reset it You know whose gonna have original exotics at 32 ? people who don't cry and just play the damn game.

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