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Edited by tack129:
2/18/2015 1:26:56 AM
60
We need to discuss about Special ammo in PvP
Lately seeing posts suggesting nerf shotguns, nerf fusion rifles, nerf sniper rifles etc.
There is no denying that Special Weapons are dominant in Crucible. Making primary gunplay feel a little inferior to the fusion rifle/shotgun.
The problem with nerfing shotguns/fusion rifles is they may cause an impact on PvE. This is a design issue due to the lack of separation between crucible balance and PvE balance. Say the fusion rifles get nerfed in PvP, they also risk getting useless in PvE which can affect things such as Raid and strikes.
My suggestion is either the following:
- Reduce special ammo crates spawning.
- Lose your special ammo on death.
- Spawn with less ammo.
We're discussing about nerfing weapons when the problem could be that there just simply too much special ammo available.
Feel free to discuss this further.
Edit: One point we also need to discuss is how to balance weapons with ammo regeneration (Ice Breaker, Invictive etc) as if the reduction occurs, no doubt will those weapons start to be over powered. If Bungie can disable the ability in Crucible that would solve it but otherwise this is a good discussion point.
Edit2: Just to clarify:
Not suggesting any nerf for any special weapons other than the special ammo. Nerfing weapons would affect both PvP and PvE which is not the aim of this topic.
Edit 3: Old thread bump but basically the adjustments for the special ammo in fusion and shotguns is great news to hear. Very pleased that it is being implemented.
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3 Replies"The rate at which special ammo spawns is too damn high!"
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4 RepliesUnfortunately, the removal of special ammo drops at all also causes a huge hit to primary ammo at the same time, as Primary ammo drops in special ammo crate.
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I agree. I don't have a problem with the power of the shotguns/fusions. But, to prevent them from being the most used guns, the ammo spawns should be a little more far apart. As well as a loss of some ammo upon death. This promotes more variety in the guns players use in the crucible as well as the strategy in which to use them.
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I've noticed a reduction in heavy ammo spawn rate, but special remains the same.
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What about adding more movement to give people a chance to avoid such attacks, like a fast step back or a sidestep, maybe with a smal cooldown so one can not spam it?
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6 RepliesThe people who say no are afraid of the invective and ice breaker. Sadly they have a point. Idk how to counter that fact but it is what it is. Those guns still would dominate.
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I've posted similar and fully agree with this notion. Special Weapons should be powerful, and they should be a gamechanger. But dammit they should also be a little more "Special," don't ya think? There's nothing wrong with the power of a shotgun or fusion rifle. They should be killing machines! But they shouldn't be allowed to run rampant as the only viable option in the Crucible. As Bungie has said, if any one weapon becomes the go-to option, it's broken. There's no denying that a shotgun has its place as a CQC weapon, but having 24 shots at your disposal on a small map is a bit much. Hide in a corner in high traffic areas and camp, you can rack up the kills. We've all done it. It doesn't take an incredible amount of skill to pull off, and yet with so much ammo on hand, why would you go anywhere else, or use any other gun? The same can be said for Fusion Rifle usage. People spam these powerful weapons with impunity because the ammo is so abundant. Reduce it in some way and things will improve. Yes, the weapons will still be powerful and smart players will still get plenty of kills with them, but it'll prevent every Rumble or Control match from becoming a constant Shotgun fest. inb4"getgudnub" It's a solution that will balance PvP matches for the better and add some variety to them without neutering good guns.
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2 RepliesThanks for responding everyone. Whether you agree or disagree. This has been an important topic for me with regards to Crucible and it's good to see a discussion on the issue. Have updated the original topic to clarify that I am not suggesting any nerf to special weapons other than the amount of special ammo in Crucible. Keep the discussion going! :)
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1 ReplyI agree with losing your ammo upon dying.
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2 RepliesWould crucible be better off if they nerfed all guns? I don't mean lower the dmg on guns but take them out all together and turn it into a goldeneye- slappers only battle. I don't see why people are so set on nerfing things and taking out xur. If anything we should be shouting put MORE content and more frequent events in if anything.
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I understand where your coming from but it's deff different for everyone. Don't get me wrong, today my primary weapons used in the iron banner were shotguns and rocket launchers! But that is because I can't afford to let the opportunity to get kills pass me up. It's also very situational. You'll have a lot of noobs using shotguns because they're the easiest to get kills; fusion rifles because if they hit they kill and have a longer range; snipers because there is something just satisfying of popping heads from a distance. But my FAVORITE weapon us my thorn! Let them have all the special ammo they want because I'll two hit head shot all day! Diminishing the amount if social ammo will break the flow of the game. If ANYTHING we should instead the smoking if heavy weapon ammo! That'll solve your shotgun and fusion rifle ammo dilemma ;)
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5 RepliesI bet the guys who want the ammo reduced are the same peeps who were crying for the AR nerf a few weeks back. Stop crying about getting killed, Bungie has bigger issues they need to work on instead of protecting pro-nerf whiners.
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need more spec. ammo..... it should be unlimited. or they need to make you able to equip any weapon to your main slot.
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I... I feel... I feel like it's not special...
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I say yes. Shotguns and Fusion Rifles are so OP mostly because special ammo is so easy to get. It's gotta be reduced, not a lot, but still has to be.
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2 RepliesEdited by Twelve Gauge: 11/17/2014 1:41:48 PMFor awhile i hated shotguns, Cursed them every match, but in all seriousness they are only effective when your right in the face of your opponent, not even a little bit useful otherwise. Fusion rifles on the other hand actually could use some tweaking, the power, range, or charge rate need to be adjusted (slightly) to be more In line with shotguns, i.e. useful in close proximity, not so much otherwise. What your suggesting is basically a nerf to the guns whether you worded it that way or not, your tired of getting killed by them so you want their use limited. Also, If your "adjustment" actually happened you would see a hundred more threads about certain AR's being too powerful, so you solved one problem but created another, see what i'm getting at? Piece of advice, instead of trying to force the game into what you want it to be, try adapting to the game, its a lot more fun that way.
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1 ReplyI have a thread I created very similar to this without the poll. I completely agree that there is too much special ammo on the map. It is pretty ridiculous that these scrubs only run around with shotguns and fusion rifles and never once get a kill with a primary. Also, your poll is going to lose to the people who want to keep the special ammo the same because there are more bad kids than there are skilled players. I would say that probably 70% of people who play multiplayer suck and only use shotguns and fusion rifles as where only about 30% of the people have skill and can use guns to get headshots. I have no issues with sniper rifles though. But when you get into a lobby of rumble or skirmish, something with a lower roster of players, they only seem to be using shotguns and fusion rifles, especially in rumble.
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4 RepliesI agree lower special weapon ammo drops but ice breaker and invective ammo regeneration shouldn't be taken away in PvP those are guns people worked for. that's like telling a little kid to rake your yard for 10$ then only giving him 5$. And another thing a gun is only as good as the person using it "skill".
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D i c K heads like you will ruin this game
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12 Repliesnerf this nerf that, how about this; shut up and deal with it!
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3 RepliesDo not nerf snipers they take skill
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2 RepliesThis wouldn't be a problem if the maps were bigger! Of course shotguns dominate, because they are close range weapons and most maps are close range. Does anybody ever put this into the equation? Believe me when I say, I get overwhelmed by shotguns in the Crucible and that's because people shift to the easiest weapon. I used to use a shotgun assault rifle combo, but that's because the maps were too damn small to do anything else. I started using hand cannons and I'm having a blast, but I can't have as much fun as I would like because the maps are tailored for Shotguns. We need bigger maps and the people with shotguns wouldn't be as dominant as they currently are.
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This will make invective and icebreaker op. Before you say anything I have and use both.
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I think they should make special weapons a bit more "special". I think special weapon drops are so common that they feel unnecessary sometimes and you should just spawn in with the ammo... I like the idea. Don't reduce ammo drops to the extent of heavy weapons, but reduce them a bit.
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2 RepliesEdited by RivetingPower: 11/16/2014 5:05:27 AMThey won't, I fall back on my primary all the time I never use shot guns and I'll slaughter you with an epilogue quit crying like a school girl and take your shot gun or pocket infinity and bring it
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6 RepliesGreat suggestion! I think Bungie should definitely take this into consideration. Making the already existing maps bigger is not an option anymore. It's too late for that
