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原先发布于: Nobody has entirely free will?
5/28/2014 6:22:37 PM
6
"If a number of armed men stormed into your room right now, and handed you an apple and told you "if you do not eat the apple, we will kill you" is your choice to eat the apple a free choice? " Yes. As for factors such as subcultures, I like to think that any influence upon you from those factors are taken in by you and made your own. You have your choices as to what you want to follow. "Many things contribute to deviance, as well as other actions, many of them social." I always think it's something of human nature to be deviant. Inequality is something that will always exist between humans, therefore deviance will always be there. The myth of equality is just something nice that people who won't face reality believe. " simply speak with a drug, or someone under the influence of various drugs." Now this, is an interesting one. While they choose to take the drug, the effects are hard to pinpoint. People say that when under the influence of a drug they feel like they can act differently, more in a way that they like etc. It could be said the drug enables this behaviour OR it's the drug "speaking", as it were. Though I believe that under the influence of any drugs where you retain self awareness, there is always a level of choice on how you behave. The choices might just be harder to make. "If one's biology influences what they desire so greatly that it is the only thing on their mind, was it actually free will?" Now, human nature. Naturally, it's our nature to want to survive. Inevitably, there will be those with aberrant behaviour but factoring them in is a pain. If you feel hunger, it is uncomfortable and you will want to remove that feeling, correct? People tend to always want to be somewhere where they are comfortable but ultimately, they have the choice to ease the feeling or not. They will just be strongly inclined to ease it rather than not. Yes, what I've written may be a bit over the place so I apologise.
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  • I understand what you have said, and it largely makes sense. I was not directly speaking of being under the influence, just using them as an example of biology affecting choices. My argument was "Is it really free will if your will is affects (arguable "chained") by societal, biological, and other factors?"

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  • I wouldn't say our free will is as affected by those factors as much as, the choices we are likely to make due to those factors. Although those factors could be present, we still retain the ability to make choices. Honestly the best way to explain "free will" in the presence of those is a sort of "restrained free will". This is something of a contradiction though. Some may feel that there is no choice in the presence of those factors, but is the feeling of no choice really no choice? And if someone feels they have no choice then what is the state of their free will? I'd think of it as there being different.. levels of free will. Imagine a slider bar where having the slider in the middle is total free will and say, the left is the choice to eat the apple and the right is the choice not to eat the apple. If someone is expected to eat the apple by both his/her hunger and those around her then the slider will be more to the left. Perhaps it will be far enough to the left that he/she will forget that there is another choice, thus removing her free will in that choice without actually stripping it from her. Now, after typing that, I made it clearer to myself. There IS always free will but, strangely enough, it's only our minds that can take our choices from us due to how we respond to pressure and other circumstances.

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  • At the end of your post, you said "our minds that can take our choices..." If it took away choices, did you really have free will?

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  • I didn't mean it in such an absolute way, our choices are still there, it's just that we, ourselves, have forgotten about that they exist. It's in that way that our choices are taken. Taken without being truly taken.

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  • My argument still would be, didn't that influence your decision then? If your mind handn't removed that choice, would you have taken it? Is not the brain operating the way it was made (biological) or trained (social)?

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  • Yes, the decision has been influenced. That is as expected. There is no way to know if example person would have taken that choice since it didn't happen. I also factored out behaviour I would call aberrant earlier so I can't argue that side. As for separating the biological section and the social sections, are we really human if we don't combine both of those sections? Many non conscious animals wouldn't be what they are if they didn't act upon both biological and social instincts. However, us humans do take it slightly further than they do. Our brain is made as both biological AND social in the society we live in. On another note, I was aiming to answer the title question, seems to have been done earlier so this is a weird turnaround. We are influenced by everything around us, that can be said for certain.

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