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5/11/2014 7:08:46 PM
36
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由Madman Mordo编辑： 5/11/2014 8:36:55 PMI'm so fucking sick of this victim blaming fallacy. "hurr, don't want a car crash? Then don't drive." "don't want to be r*ped? Then don't dress like that." Why should a woman be chastised and forced to bring another human being into this world (because pregnancy is totally risk free and a walk in the park to go through by the way) just because she had sex one night? Because a clump of disorganized cells is of more valuable worth than her? Fuck off.
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It's not victim blaming. It's telling people the purpose of sex IS for reproductive purposes. If you're going to have sex unprotected then it's going to happen. The person at fault is the one too stupid to spend .25 cents on a condom. If a fetus wasn't a living organism then killing a pregnant women wouldn't be classified as double-homicide. Oh wait, it's only beneficial in this case cause the state makes money off sending people with harsher crimes to jail If a person doesn't take the time to look both ways at an intersection and gets hit then the accident is their fault. Should we just let people like that off the hook? If you use caution while driving then you won't get into an accident. If you don't dress provocative then guys won't look at you sexually. It's simple as that. A female that goes nude in public WILL get far more attention than a women that's wearing baggy jeans and a t-shirt. And women think the same EXACT way when a guy is muscular and good looking where just shorts
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由Madman Mordo编辑： 5/11/2014 9:01:31 PMOh cool so now we're drawing up your arbitrary definitions for everything. Cool, didn't know we were ready to go down that road yet, but here we go I guess. What is so fucking deplorable about casual sex for you guys? I mean, if you want to repress your natural urges to the point of impotence then that's fine with me, but don't impose your shitty belief system onto others. People are going to have casual sex whether you agree with it or not, so you may as well just suck it up and move on in life. But I digress. Regardless of whether you believe abortions are reprehensible or not, you have to understand that it needs to stay legalised. When you outlaw pregnancy terminations, that's when medically unsound abortions skyrocket, increasing mother/infant mortality and morbidity rates tenfold than if it was legal. Surely even you have to admit that legal, safe and sterile abortions are the lesser of two evils at this point.
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If you're going to have casual sex then be smart and realize the consequences of it is pregnancy. There is nobody else here to blame but the two people. If somebody commits a crime, they deal with the consequences. If somebody fails a test, they deal with the consequences. Why does pregnancy have to be any different? People are also going to commit murder, so people might as well suck it up and loosen up the laws for it Just because something is better than the other, that doesn't still make it right. ONLY time abortions should be legal is with -blam!-, incest, danger to mother's life, or possibility of the child having severe disorders that will leave them unable to live a somewhat normal life (talking about severe mental illness and living as a vegetable)
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由Madman Mordo编辑： 5/11/2014 10:13:35 PM[quote]If you're going to have casual sex then be smart and realize the consequences of it is pregnancy. There is nobody else here to blame but the two people.[/quote] Ah right cool. So we should totally punish them for the rest of their lives for engaging in a consensual act of affection between each other. It's nice to know there's people like you I have to share a planet with. [quote]If somebody commits a crime, they deal with the consequences. If somebody fails a test, they deal with the consequences. Why does pregnancy have to be any different? People are also going to commit murder, so people might as well suck it up and loosen up the laws for it[/quote] Except your analogies fall apart due to the fact that consensual, casual sex is not a detriment to society, nor is abortion. Committing ethically dubious acts such as -blam!- or theft clearly impacts other people. Failing an exam would impact the labour market and employment. I fail to see where abortion stands in this kind of argument, unless you [i]really[/i] want to make the case that a foetus is a person, which I will subsequently shoot down immediately. [quote]Just because something is better than the other, that doesn't still make it right. ONLY time abortions should be legal is with -blam!-, incest, danger to mother's life, or possibility of the child having severe disorders that will leave them unable to live a somewhat normal life (talking about severe mental illness and living as a vegetable)[/quote] But it is objectively the preferable and less harmful option. I thought with you being a pro gun nut and whatnot you'd be for the legalisation of abortion regardless of your ethical stance. Criminalisation isn't going to magically make something you don't like go away. People are going to do it regardless of its legality. It's just a question of whether you want to make it safe and regulated or not.
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How does that translate to punishment for life? Science and scientists that fetus, even a zygote, IS a human. Here I was thinking science was regarded as the highest opinion possible. But wait, this is just cherry-picking. With this you are affecting other people because you are denying an individual a chance at life. You never know, any of those aborted fetuses could have gone onto discovering the cure for cancer or better shape the world Driving high is objectively better than driving drunk. But guess what, it's still an impairment of motor skills. Lol at you for actually bringing gun debate into this. But man, look at ALL those people committing voter fraud since it's illegal. Something ought to be done about that! And look at all those people going through black market lobotomies! It's such a huge issue! It's not criminalizing the person being pregnant. It's telling them that you must have a viable reason in order to have one, other than because you simply don't feel like having a baby. Only person that will be persecuted is the individual who will conduct the procedure due to not having a medical license. Even with abortions still legal, many people go through illegal procedures
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由Madman Mordo编辑： 5/11/2014 11:00:58 PM[quote]How does that translate to punishment for life? [/quote] Are you dense? By forcing people to go through with pregnancies (assuming the woman survives relatively unscathed) two people (or less) essentially have to give up their lives in order to raise a child they never intended to bring into this world. Do you not recognise the serious mental and emotional trauma which could be incurred on not just the parents, but the child as well? Do you not think that abortion would be a much preferable option than swaths of ill equipped parents who do not possess the propensity for the proper upbringing of a child? Are you really advocating that kind of situation? [quote]Science and scientists that fetus, even a zygote, IS a human[/quote] I never denied that it wasn't human, in the broadest sense at least. It is however, definitely not a functioning sentient person with the same values and feelings as you and I. That much is sure. [quote]Here I was thinking science was regarded as the highest opinion possible. But wait, this is just cherry-picking. With this you are affecting other people because you are denying an individual a chance at life. You never know, any of those aborted fetuses could have gone onto discovering the cure for cancer or better shape the world[/quote] Ah of course. The "what if we aborted the next superman!!11" card. Would there be an abortion debate without it? Do you not realise how fallacious this argument sounds? It's a two way street. What if someone has already aborted the next Hitler? [quote]Driving high is objectively better than driving drunk. But guess what, it's still an impairment of motor skills[/quote] What the fuck does this have to do with anything? [quote]Lol at you for actually bringing gun debate into this. But man, look at ALL those people committing voter fraud since it's illegal. Something ought to be done about that! And look at all those people going through black market lobotomies! It's such a huge issue![/quote] Are you going to address what I said, or are you just going to strawman your way out of it? [quote]It's not criminalizing the person being pregnant. It's telling them that you must have a viable reason in order to have one, other than because you simply don't feel like having a baby.[/quote] Having shitty parents who never desired a child is definitely a viable reason. Probably the most viable case for abortion right next to r*pe and incest. B-BUT MUH MORALS [quote]Only person that will be persecuted is the individual who will conduct the procedure due to not having a medical license.[/quote] And let's just disregard the fact that the person undertaking the procedure could potentially die. [quote]Even with abortions still legal, many people go through illegal procedures[/quote] Obviously. There is a black market for alcohol and cigarettes too, but it doesn't mean we should outlaw them because "oh well, there will always be illegal procedures."
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Your point? Contraception isn't something that gives a 100% guarantee pregnancy prevention. Not denying they work or are good but denying they are the safest method. The safest method will always abstain from sexual intercourse until you are ready for a child
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Because Pregnancy and Child Birth don't cause any issues in the slightest. They certainly don't make someone's life worse, they don't change anything about them and Child Birth certainly isn't painful, or costly, at all. And they certainly wouldn't be daily reminders of what happened to them at all. And the child learning his father is a rapist, and is only alive because of the raype? That won't lead to any negative consequences at all.
