This all depends on opinion. I remember when people were ripping on Halo 2, Halo 3 and Reach when they were in their prime. I disagreed with almost every single person who ripped on those three games apart from a few issues; BR spread in H2, the Spartan Laser in H3, a dozen things in Reach....... But with H4 I really do think there is genuine warrant for these outcries. I mean..... some of the things in H4 aren't a matter of opinion, some of the things about H4 are fact. There is no Assault, there is no classic CTF, there is no Falcon/Hornet, there are no playable Elites. Yes there are still the traditional Halo moaners who moan about H4 just like they did with Reach, H3 and H2..... but this time it's different. There really is something to be disappointed about.

I definitely agree that there is certainly legitimate grievances with Halo 4. It is a downgrade from previous Halo games. Halo 4 is being made by what is essentially a brand new studio. They might have a lot of talent on their team, but they don't really have any feedback to work off of. They didn't know what changes were made to Reach and [u]why.[/u] They certainly have that feedback now (in mostly an angry form), so perhaps that means Halo 5 will be amazing. There are facets of Halo 4 I enjoy; I enjoyed the pace of gameplay and the feel of a lot of weapons. However, so many weapons are just too ridiculously good. The Sword, for example, is ridiculous with Sprint and Thruster Packs. The SAW is pretty much just a ridiculous Assault Rifle (which I feel has perfect balance in this game :c). The DMR ruined Valhalla, so there's that. You're also right in the amount of gametypes being cut; that's stupid. The Hornet/Falcon being absent I can deal with, but it does feel wrong that there's just less variety in terms of vehicles (the Mantis doesn't count because it's just a gigantic target for DMR fire that spouts missiles). I'm really interested to see how 343 handles Halo 5 design-wise, but I'm definitely not pre-ordering it this time.

I won't pre-order either. Halo 4 was a terrible disappointment. Perhaps if I had waited until way after the launch, read community feedback and considered the pros and cons, and then bought Halo 4 I would regard it differently. The problem for me was that the hype and terribly off-target reviews (I'm looking at you IGN) ultimately made me dislike Halo 4 a great deal. There was too much difference between my expectations and the end result. If the consensus was "It's not the best Halo ever made, but it's ok for a first attempt" then I'd probably be ok with buying Halo 4 just to be part of it. I get what you're saying about Halo 4 being made by a brand new studio....... but I personally don't count that as a legitimate excuse for the poor quality of Halo 4. I think it's part of the equation for sure, but I think it more comes down to a team that didn't understand what Halo was about and apparently didn't think it was necessary to tackle that major issue. Instead they just made whatever they felt like with no consideration for the fanbase or even just what a casual player might want out of the game. I really could talk all day about Halo 4 and its failures but I've honestly almost all interest in it and the future of Halo. As far as I'm concerned Halo 4 isn't Halo just like the new Star Wars trilogy isn't Star Wars. They're imposters that look and sound like the original but they've missed something...... the spark has gone.

IMO, it wasn't that they didn't understand, they just went far out of their way to ensure that it had the 343 brand on it.

People complain a lot, sure, but halo 4 is just [i]bad[/i]. This isn't just some complaints about the new wave of stuff, I mean, seriously, what can you say in defense of the idea that they are intentionaly compressing the skill gap?

Relative to the previous Halo games, yes Halo 4 is a let down. I agree that a lot must be done in order to fix the game, and even then it's too late to transform the game into what we want. Still, in hindsight, why DID we expect perfection? This game was not only being done by a different studio, but it was done by a completely NEW studio with the umbilical cord still lingering around. All things considered, things went fantastically. Again, 343 shouldn't get a free pass. I don't know whether or not I'll get Halo 5 (although I am a sheep, so we'll see how principled I truly am). They messed a lot of things up, big and small. I admire that they took a lot of risks to try to keep the formula from getting stale, but there were too many failures to make that forgivable. Many errors exist because 343 either didn't realize their importance (like the lack of decent Custom Games settings and modifiable game types) or because they didn't implement them properly (Valhalla is TERRIBLE as a result of the DMR, for example). From a business sense, everything 343 did made sense. Appealing to a broader audience makes perfect sense in the AAA video game industry. Still, that doesn't exactly foster loyalty with die-hard consumers. I still respect how hard they are trying to appease the fans and improve the game; the gesture at the very least is appreciated.

Just a couple things. First off, I never expected perfection, and like you, understand that this game shouldn't have a shot at living fully up to halo's legacy, however, I'm more concerned with the apparent intended direction of the game more than I am any individual shortcomings. As for appealing to a broader audience, I really have to disagree on the value of that. Games need to be specialized to certain audiences to do particularly well, or else they get spread out trying to please everyone, and it won't be as good for either group. And how can you say that they are trying hard to appease the fans? Ok, when I first saw the details on the TU, I thought maybe they cared, but with the way they treat people on their forums, the way they answered the question on the dmr at gdc, it just sickens me, to be honest.

When I mentioned appealing to a broader audience, I meant in a business sense. I loathe how dumbed down some things are in Halo 4. Some power weapons are just too easy to use (Incineration Cannon being the best example). The weapon spawning system kills strategic map control play. There's no attack/defend game types anymore, removing whatever is left of thinking in playing the game. I wish 343 would have designed things better for better players. As for appeasing fans, I haven't really been keeping up with everything 343 has been doing. They're actually making changes to the game (often much too late, like the Forge Islands), and that gesture alone should be at least appreciated. They could very well just clamp their hands over their ears and start yelling, but they're actually using this as an opportunity to improve their game. Granted, they have probably lost a lot of good will from their fans (I'm on the fence, I'll wait to see how Halo 5 turns out after release), but they legitimately seem to be listening and getting some valuable (if enraged) feedback.

Don't get me wrong, i hate Reach, but Reach's forge and custom games were infintely better than Halo 4's, so i agree with you there. I'm definitely not looking back on it with Rosy glasses though.