From my experience, most higher end Hunter players run marksman dodge over gamblers in PvP anyway for the faster cool down and the free reload, outside of some very specific loops. Speaking as a Hunter main myself, most Hunter melees are simply not worth it damage wise or risk wise, or require very consistent and precise skill to get the most out of. All forms of knives - very easy to sidestep or predict the wind up. Proximity is easy to avoid if you are paying attention and the damage is laughable if you use it for its "intended" purpose. Weighted is the only one really worth it for damage, if you have the skill to hit it consistently or start doing some Athrys shenanigans. All forms of arc - require you to get up in everyone's personal space, which literally every other melee in the game can outmatch. Tempest strike does remedy this somewhat, but like all slide and slap melee abilities, the long windup is unfavourable, particularly when you consider that even the shoulder charge Titan melees are faster and do more damage (and give decent knockback if they don't outright kill you). Snare Bombs - low damage. Best used as an annoyance or for utility. Don't be expecting a kill with this thing unless you can bonk it off a one-tap Guardian's head. Withering Blades - Probably the one melee that is somewhat useful, as it can slow, has decent range, and you can bounce it off walls for surprise around the corner attacks. However, it is low damage, best suited for a clean up or to soften opponents before cleaning up with a weapon. Threaded Spike - Can bounce between a clustered group, but again the damage is low and sever in PvP isn't really worth it imo. Catching it to get more melee back isn't practical in an intense PvP firefight either; best just to fire a weapon, use your grenade or get the heck out of there if the matchup is unfavourable. Grapple (I'll include this here because it is more of a melee than a grenade, let's be real) - Good for movement. The melee itself does decent knockback, but for the kill, it normally requires the opponent to be softened up first, and closing that gap leaves you open to attack and potentially whiffing your melee in the meantime. Grappling onto a thrown tangle does help reduce these pain points a little bit, but finding or generating one of those in PvP isn't always the easiest, assuming your teammates don't steal it or blow it up for their own gain. Put it simply, most Hunter melees aren't worth it in PvP to be using gamblers over marksman. The fact that, as previously mentioned, marksman cools down faster, is an even bigger kick in the teeth.

I’m aware of what each melee is used for. I am not by any means new to this game. Many people who have replied to this have simply looked past the fact that it’s not the strength of the melee that I brought up, it’s the fact that it’s full refund of melee energy. Let’s take a minute and compare this to other classes. Rally barricade has a significant fast cooldown than towering, but let’s use towering for this example. Using a class ability nearby enemies refunds a thunder clap or a shiver strike? No, people would lose their minds. Does RDM need a rework? Probably cause dodge is annoying. They could only refund 20% of a dodge which in my opinion would still make them viable, but they haven’t done that yet. Gamblers dodge has a 6 second difference than marksman, and I’ll be frank I’ve not seen a single person run marksman unless their plan was to use strand slam. However, gamblers dodge refunding full melee energy only increases the ability spam hunters already have. I knew coming into this that it’s an unpopular opinion, but smoke bombs have been a staple in void hunter since its release over a decade ago. The only thing that’s changed is now it can be spammed.

And no other class besides Titan gets most of their melee energy back on a whiff (looking at you, shoulder charges). Yet Hunter melees are the easiest to whiff and are supposed to be the mobile class and yet Titans can move faster using their melees and the energy refund in whiff. Make that one make sense and then maybe we can address the dodge melee refund.

The “whiff” was used to address titans using shoulder charge as a movement tool. It takes away ~20% of energy per use, and if it “whiffs” on another player then it takes full charge. We could also use the same example for warlocks? Do you think casting a rift nearby enemies deserves another charge of electric slide?

No. For the same reason I don't think Hunters should be able to summon an army of buddies, get a void overshield, start accumulating bolt charge, get an increased reload speed, block a shot etc. whenever they dodge, all of which can be done at base (maybe with an aspect or two) for the other two classes. This has been built into the game for literal years. The base ability of a Hunter to get back melee, auto load their equipped weapon or become radiant on a dodge is NOT the problem. The first two have always existed; the final one has existed for a couple of years. Don't mess around with a Hunter in close range, don't let them get a kill on you, and if they start dancing around you, throw some AOE or don't engage unless you outnumber. You wouldn't expend all your shots on a Warlock in a rift with a turret army around them or a Titan behind a barricade, this is no different.

Naw, trash take. Please leave That would ruin hunters in PvE and PvE is the absolute focus of this game.

Bungie has shown that they can target nerfs to PVP separately. I’m specifically talking about nerfing it to PVP.

Awful take

The nerf to gamblers dodge will fix all complaints about RDM. A OHK heavy weighted knife across the map, or arc that hits you well within cover. Gamblers dodge had no business ever returning a full melee charge.

[quote]The nerf to gamblers dodge will fix all complaints about RDM. A OHK heavy weighted knife across the map, or arc that hits you well within cover. Gamblers dodge had no business ever returning a full melee charge.[/quote] Nah That's an awful take. Away with you. Then thruster shouldn't exist. Certainly shouldn't heal or suspent. Phoenix dive shouldn't do anything. No over shields No healing rifts No empowering rift. No child of the old god. No solar or arc buddy.

No other subclass’s class ability returns FULL energy. 🫠🫠

What’s your point? No other subclass has a barrier either… Are we really going to play this game of “no other blank has blank”? Do you realize what would happen if Bungie did that? Hunters would be gutted from any PvE content over night. Every Hunter build washed away and flushed down the drain. Might as well stick to lucky pants and graviton forfeit if Bungie made such an awful change. Gamblers dodge is what keeps hunters relevant in PvE because for the main DPS roll, we all know that ain’t no one picking hunters for their DPS output Possibly the worst take I’ve ever seen. We can all see that you’re a salty lad who only plays competitive PvP and you probably play it a bit more than you should, for a game that’s primary focus is PvE