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由Orpheus49编辑：
5/8/2017 10:12:04 PM
26
Im glad im working with kone and kielron to spread the word on just how different the meta is at different skill levels, there really is a BIG difference
It was brought up in the cast that, a good player will make anything work......
Im sorry but thats just not true at all. I can work an auto prefectly, they dont require precision like a handcannon, however id rather use a handcannon, simply because that gun is actually competitive
Its impossible to ask us to use something else and make the claim that it will work just because are good, since so much playstyles/guns have been nerfed to uselessness.
When i get 100% accuracy with an auto or a handcannon, the handcannon will always win out. When the enemy is extremely good in close quarters, thrynare going to use a sidearm since shotguns are extremely inconsistent. Players will use whatever is the best gun since they know they can reach those killing times with ease, thanks to their aim and abilities. Anything else is a handicap, a big one, and thats not fun.
Its to the point where i have to use the meta just to compete because those guns. They are the only weapons that i can use and beat people at my skill level because those guns actually work.
Its definitely not because im not as skilled as i say, if that where the case, i would have regressed in these metas due to lack of adapting. Its just the fact that those weapons are all you can use, anything else is asking to die
Go into rumble right now, or trials, and try to use something other than the meta, and you will die. This is the only way anyone can see it. As kone stated, im at a point where i am matchmade into 6v6 where it is just as present, and it's not fun being forced to use it.
I want to use what i want, i dont wanna be forced to use handcannons since thats all that works. Dont nerf them, just buff everything else that got ruined
Good listen, and thanks for spreading the word of our project Kone
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1. A good player can "make anything work"...against a poor player. A good player will get wrecked by another good player of equal skill if the weapons being used aren't properly balanced. Or if one player has a loadout poorly suited for a map that strongly advantages one particular play style. Which is why this game has such strong metas. That's what people seem to forget in this game. The meta isn't about what happens when a Top 100 player meets a average player. That Top 100 player could beat that average player with ANYTHING. The meta is about who has the advantage when players of EQUAL skill meet. 2. Rumble is a game that rewards the player who exerts map control, and kills his opponents as quickly as possible. Same for Supremacy. Same for Trials, because each death has such a major impact on the flow of the match. Which is why the range of weapons that are competitive in in these play modes for the vast majority of players are so narrow. If I take Shadow Price into a game of Rumble...and go up against a player of equal skill whose using a god-rolled Eyasluna or Palindrome. I'm going to lose. If we fire at the same time....he hits his head shot...and I hit mine.....I lose. Simply because his weapon kills faster. 3. Unfortunately , Bungie has been unwilling to buff weapons because their agenda hasn't been a balanced game.....but a game with a particular TTK and play speed. (Which unfortunately are incompatible with the game's design).
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[quote]A good player will get wrecked by another good player of equal skill if the weapons being used aren't properly balanced.[/quote] [quote]The meta is about who has the advantage when players of EQUAL skill meet.[/quote] In My experience though this will ALWAYS happen no matter how balanced things are. The players who play the modes that need to kill the quickest will [u]always[/u] find the loadouts that work the best. They will always drive a meta.
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...and that's the fundamental problem in PVP right now. You are absolutely, positively, 100% correct.. EVERY shooter (or competitive game) where you give someone a choice of how to play, is to play like this. They will find the most efficient way of killing (or achieving whatever goal) possible in the game. They will find it because it gives them a competitive advantage over those who don't.....or if they don't, they give away that advantage to those who do. So that is why---where there is that choice----you HAVE to balance the game (if you want any build or play style diversity) and you HAVE to balance the game with that principle in mind. I understand this. YOU understand this. But Bungie just refuses to accept this. So they just keep tyring to nerf, and nerf, and nerf in a vain effort to get this game to play with weapons that are simply underpowered for the speed at which play actually moves. Its not working...and it never will work. They just keep breaking more and more of the game...and pushing it into playing in more and more of a stilted fashion...the more they try to force the issue.
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There is still SBMM. But the player base is low, and the parameters have been significantly nerfed per community request. So you still see a wide variation in the skill level of opponents despite it. Which is why I can put up a k/d of .45 in one match....and drop a 3.0 in the next.
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What Orpheus49 said. Shooters have "snowball" and "rubber band" mechanics. Snowball mechanics are traits in the game that allow a team that is winning the game to gain an advantage, and extend their lead. Their momentum increases like a snowball running downhill. Orbs of light...and chaining supers are snowball mechanics. Rubber band mechanics are those that allow a LOSING team to slow the momentum of a winning team, and possibly fight their way back into the game. Because of the whining of streamers and Trials players----all jockeying for advantage, and to eliminate any advantages their opponents have-----most of the game's "rubber band" mechanics have either been eliminated....or severely nerfed. While the game's snowball mechanics have been largely left in place. So with heavy ammo and special ammo being made less available....and with less ability to carry it in reserve, and many of the player abilities having been nerfed as well. What this has done is make it very difficult for a losing team to fight their way back into a game....or for one or two strong players to "carry" a weak or dysfunctional team in 6v6. In short....Bungie has so narrowed the scope of viable play options...that the game has become painfully narrow and predictable. But the whiners got what they wanted. A game where average players have little ability to effectively compete against better players.
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Hammer meets nail. I am still baffled by all of this , and wondering what will happen with the crucible in D2. Dont have a clue really who came up with this roadmap for pvp. The whiners? Bungies sandbox team should keep a clear eye on things them selves , look at the feedback and statistics and find a balance in the middle. Not easy to do probably, but who said that it was. It seperates the good devs from the bad just like in the crucible. Cheers.
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由Durandal编辑： 5/8/2017 11:12:31 PMI have to disagree with parts of this. I have found an auto rifle roll that has ended up with me outdueling every palindrome, ill will, and eyasluna roll people bring up against it in private matches or general play. It's on an unbent tree, but I've been hunting and keeping an eye out for other HRoF/doctrine archetype autos with similar: Perfect balance Appended magazine And.... Focused Fire Gives a serious boost to range (I mean ridiculous, no drop off in damage from the back of one room to the side of B in anomaly all the way to the back of the other, at the least), serious boost to damage from 15 up to 20 per headshot which drops bullets used to kill and thereby reducing ttk significantly) and here's the clincher: no actual ROF drop. The added ammo is just for fun, and I'd like to find something else that helps range or stability, but having 69 rounds in the mag does make it so I can kill 4 people before a reload is needed. And yes, I've gone into rumble with this, used no special weapons, and have won or place in the top two. It was what I used to do the rumble Node in the aot book. It's just one example, but it does illustrate the point there are guns and rolls out there that can and do compete and even outperform what most people consider the current meta.
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I understand that. But in the grand scheme of things because it doesn't work for [u]you[/u] does that somehow mean is doesn't or should work for anyone else? How can you be positive that there isn't an AR roll that will work on your lobby? You're so insistent on these things yet I haven't seen anyone corroborate yet there have been plenty of people saying that other weapons work for them.
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Flawed logic for 2 reasons. 1) it's an assumption to say that his accuracy is the reason for the negative KD. Staying alive is also a factor and maybe that contributes more. We don't know. 2) if he wasn't accurate and getting precision he wouldn't be beating out good rolled Handcannons. With the current state of autos he wouldn't be nearly successful as he's claiming. So no I don't think that's it.
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[quote]Flawed logic for 2 reasons. 1) it's an assumption to say that his accuracy is the reason for the negative KD. Staying alive is also a factor and maybe that contributes more. We don't know. [/quote] I offered a premise which was consistent with a lower KD. It was inferential reasoning not deductive. That's why I prefaced with a maybe. [quote] 2) if he wasn't accurate and getting precision he wouldn't be beating out good rolled Handcannons. With the current state of autos he wouldn't be nearly successful as he's claiming. [/quote] The low KD suggest that he isn't beating out other players as frequently as he is losing to them. You are also assuming that his opponents are getting head shots with hand cannons. I'm not saying that you are definitively wrong but the evidence seems to support the argument about the meta more than this anecdotal response.
