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《天命2》

討論《天命2》的所有事情。
由Desolator0編輯: 8/5/2022 3:03:15 AM
8

The Intellect/Super energy changes have broadly killed off roaming Super viability in PvP

I play a ton of PvP, including Survival and Trials. I would hope that I have the stats and game history to back this claim up. The most common thing with subclass choice that I see is that almost nobody runs any form of roaming Super after the Intellect/Super energy changes (and on some level, the masterwork/Orb of Power generation changes being moved to your helmet as mods). It's maybe 99% Ward of Dawn, Well of Radiance, Blade Barrage, and Tether, with the rare Nova Bomb or Thundercrash (I know this is anecdotal, but inspect what players are running in your games and you'll see what I mean). I know this also has to do with Void and Solar 3.0, but also the fact that T1 and T2 Supers are nearly impossible to earn without slaying out in these modes, and even then you're only getting [u]one[/u] T1/T2 Super per game vs. up to [b][i]three[/i][/b] Wells/Bubbles/Blade Barrages in a 6v6 game. If I do even decently well in a 6v6 game, I have managed to get [b]three[/b] Ward of Dawns if I pop them after it's ready, which also generates three Orbs for my teammates to then get their Supers faster, too. I have never managed to earn two T1 Supers in any game after these changes, even while managing 35+ kill games mostly using my primary weapon (which gives more super energy). In 3v3 modes, it's even worse. Unless you intentionally play slowly to stall out the rounds, you are actively punished for playing well because the game will be over before you even get close to earning a Super. I've had many 3v3 games that I've won on Behemoth (a T2 Super) where I'm barely at 50% Super energy even while running 100 Intellect. Earning T1 and T2 Supers is quite literally impossible if you play well in 3v3 modes, and if you try to play slowly, you're just giving the enemy team free time to get their T3/T4/T5 Supers before you're even halfway to your T1/T2 Super, so there's no incentive to play slowly for running a roaming Super. By the time you get your Super, even for doing absolutely nothing, they'll already have a Nova Bomb, Blade Barrage, or Tether to shut you down immediately. Additionally, even if you get your Super in a 3v3 mode, what would you rather have: one mediocre, nerfed roaming Super that's easily countered by faster panic/shutdown Supers that the enemy already has before you to maybe win a single round, or up to two Bubbles/Wells, which are incredibly powerful to simply place on a cap zone and win the round, as well as buffing your teammates [i]and[/i] giving them three Orbs of Power to get their Supers back faster? That's two guaranteed round wins vs. one round win, best case scenario for both, and even if you lose, you've still given your teammates three Orbs each to help come back. There's also no build crafting incentive to run high Intellect while running a T1/T2 Super when you're never going to get it anyways, thus making it a completely irrelevant stat. You're punished far more for running a T1/T2 Super and even running high/max Intellect than a T4/T5 Super, which is partly why nobody runs these roaming Supers anymore. In my opinion, these changes are terrible for overall Super balancing and actively punish players (even good ones) who want to run T1/T2 roaming Supers. This, in my opinion, is the main reason why you don't see nearly as many Fists of Havoc, Dawnblades, or Spectral Blades in PvP. Even Arcstrider, which is a T3 Super, is almost never seen, but I think this is more due to the fact that Arc hasn't gotten its update yet, and I'm betting on seeing [i]many[/i] more Arcstriders next Season. This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that Masterworked weapons no longer intrinsically generate Orbs of Power and now require an expensive and slot-eating Mod to create a much weaker version of its former self. Very few players run Kinetic/Elemental Siphon Mods in PvP because 1. Kinetic Siphon costs 3 energy, which is a lot, 2. Orbs of Power give far less Super energy than they used to, 3. double kills are much less common in 3v3 and even in 6v6 to a degree, thus making them not worth running when they'll give you no benefit, and 4. why run nerfed Siphon Mods to generate nerfed Orbs to get nerfed Super energy which you used to get for simply Masterworking your guns instead of running a weapon Targeting mod that's active 24/7, provides you multiple useful benefits, and is sometimes even [i]cheaper[/i] than Siphon mods (depending on the weapon mod)? There is no real incentive for Siphon mods to be run over Targeting mods, which is why I see nobody run them. Ideally, I would like to see the Intellect changes completely undone. The Well/Nova Bomb/Bubble/Blade Barrage Super meta that we see right now is a direct result of the Intellect changes. There is no point in running a roaming Super when it's been heavily nerfed (Striker, Behemoth, Spectral Blades) and nearly, if not totally impossible to earn in most matches. If you pop any of these Supers, there are so many counters to them now and many weapons with Vorpal Weapon that you will be melted down by teamshotting, thus wasting your entire Super and all of that time spent to earn it. When I pop Behemoth, it is the only Super in the game that I actually feel weaker when using (but this is mainly a problem with Stasis sucking majorly in PvP after the nerfs, not necessarily its status as a T2 Super). I would also like to see the Masterwork and Siphon Mod changes be undone as well, but I believe Bungie did this because they said they didn't have enough data or something similar to have both Origin Traits and intrinsical Orb of Power generation on weapons, thus requiring them to make Mods for it. I would be fine with Siphon Mods if the Intellect changes were undone. If the Intellect and Siphon changes are staying, then the nerfed roaming Supers should at least be buffed to try and encourage people to run them again.

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  • I can't wait to join them. Unsurprisingly, Titans have the fewest one a done supers so just waiting for arc 3.0 to hit so I can pop off with da missle.

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  • Its not a bug, its a feature. Bungie said they wanted to tweak the sandbox so that there was greater emphasis on gunplay in PVP...and what you're seeing is the result. Roaming supers were rained in. Dawnblade's super is difficult to get. You get your super late in the match, even if you play well....and the active super is an absolute glass cannon. I'm just grateful (as a predominantly PVE player) that this nerf has been largely limited to PvP. In years past, this would have led to these supers being rendered pretty useless in PVE as well.

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    • Supers should be universal cooldowns. Or at the very least only put into 2 tiers instead of 5. It's not like roaming supers are the unkillable monsters they used to be.

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      • 2
        I think the best option would be this (or some variation of it): - Axe tiers 1 and 5 as cooldown categories, and then put the supers that used to be in those tiers into the next closest ones. Extra thoughts down below: [spoiler]I don't mind that different abilities have different cooldowns, but it's very hard to justify having it set up so that someone running, say, 30 Intellect (the actual base cooldown) with Well/Bubble can get their Super at around the same time as (or potentially earlier than) someone using a tier 1 or 2 Super with 70-100 Intellect, even though the latter may be playing significantly better. And on top of that, with only 30 Intellect, that person has far more stat points to invest into other areas like Recovery, Discipline, Resilience, Mobility, etc. while still having the Super cooldown advantage.[/spoiler]

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        • I definitely understand what you're saying and don't think you're wrong, buuut I've actually kind of been enjoying the one-off meta. After years of ridiculous roamers like those times with Warp, Fist of Havoc, and Glacial Quake; it's felt kind of refreshing for me personally Beyond that, with the mentions of Behemoth, I feel the middling Super is almost([i]almost[/i]) justified by the extremely versatile neutral game builds. I've been wanting to get more into Behemoth ever since I saw it can kill Bubbles and Wells with your basic abilities. I just haven't been able to get the armor together lol

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          • Just get kills???

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            • 由Bore編輯: 8/5/2022 2:54:29 AM
              I can get one or two behemoths in a match of 6v6. Most matches I just end up holding onto it because the enemy team has a bunch of blade barrages, tethers and nova bombs. I’m not all that bothered that roaming supers aren’t the best pick right now, but classes like behemoth, shadebinder, sunbreaker and arc strider don’t have anything else. More options would be nice.

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              • 由A_mo編輯: 8/5/2022 2:47:31 AM
                [quote] There is no point in running a roaming Super when it's been heavily nerfed (Striker, Behemoth, Spectral Blades) and nearly, if not totally impossible to earn in most matches. [/quote] I've never been the biggest fan of some of the roaming supers but I'm sure the pendulum will swing back in their direction at some point. Those three that you listed are 3 that were really dominant (to say the least) at some point in the game and now if they were anywhere near what they were that would be quite a bit going on in some of these lobbies. Especially now that there's a lot of trapping and crowd control going on with some of the abilities. I could see if maybe they didn't last all that long or something. But someone running around with something like striker titan that lasts as long as it used to would probably be pretty over the top right now.

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