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#feedback

1/10/2019 7:51:04 PM
9

Niobe's problem was caused by poor marketing, not by poor concept or design.

TL;DR at the bottom. I'm pulling this from my response to another topic, but want to discuss why I believe why Niobe truly failed, and did not receive the reception from the community that Bungie expected. For this illustration I'll be using the Last Wish Raid content unlock as a comparison to explain why this concept of unlocking content via player action worked in that case, but failed here. The primary difference was that we didn't know we were waiting on the Last Which raid to unlock a bunch of additional content (The Corrupted Strike, Weekly Missions, 3-Week Corruption Cycle, Shattered Throne, etc.) We knew some of this was in the game through data mining and references in other places such as triumphs, but Bungie didn't give us a hard release date so the only expectation was that we'd see it eventually. So when the first team beat the raid and we all got a notification saying all this new stuff was happening, it was exciting because it was a pleasant surprise and kind of cool that they tied their roll-out to a player event rather than a fixed date and it played well within the context of the story they were telling. What happened on Tuesday was not the same. Bungie had given a firm date for the next BA content release, so there was a reasonable expectation by the community that upon log in we would have a new quest or activity to participate in. Instead what we got was a tweet from Bungie stating what we were expecting was actually locked behind a very niche activity in the form of a complex and not particularly well thought out puzzle (as evidenced by the fact that more than 48 hours later it still hasn't been solved), which most of the community either didn't want to participate in or felt they would have little to offer by participating since only one team would be credited for solving. Discussions about the complexity and quality of the puzzle aside, I firmly believe Bungie's primary mistake here was creating a gap between the expectation they set and what was delivered. By providing a release date for Niobe and having set a trend through the other BA releases, and then delivering something which appeared made for a very small portion of the community, they should have expected that many players may feel like there had been a bait and switch. For comparison think about how different the reaction to the Last Wish Raid unlock might have been if they had set the expectation we'd be getting a bunch of new content on that Friday along with the raid and everyone who showed up to play that new content was then told they'd have to wait for one of the elite teams of streamers to finish the raid before they could play. Then add on top of that 20 hours of waiting, still with no completion. I think it's safe to say we would have heard a lot of the same complaints about Bungie catering to streamers and it all being a ploy to get them more viewers, etc. On the other hand think about how Niobe might have been received if Bungie had not announced that Niobe Labs or the fourth forge was being released on Tuesday and instead the just slipped it in unannounced for a player to find. The community would have been excited about the discovery of this strange lab hidden in some new area of the EDZ with a cryptic puzzle that needed solving. Because nothing had been promised the community wouldn't have felt like something they were promised was being withheld, and I think the anticipation would have only grown more over the 2 days+ it might take to solve the puzzle. TL;DR: The real reason the Niobe unlock concept failed while the Last Wish Raid unlock worked is due to improper management of expectations (content release date) being provided for Niobe, and the community being surprised by the Last Wish unlock. Had Bungie just slipped in Niobe unannounced like the Whisper quest for example, I think reception would have been much warmer and they may have been praised since it would have been seen as a cool bonus no matter how long it took to unlock as opposed to withholding something that was promised as paid content.

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  • I think it had less to do with expectations, and more to do with the way the ecosystem itself for Black Armory was designed, rendering most of the community unable to participate. Black Armory added a new raid, so a lot of players were busy leveling up their best gear to reach 640-650. That included the new powerful engrams from that black armory. If the weapons didn't have great mods, they were infuse bait. Bungie also added a new mod ecosystem, using those weapon parts. But also requiring weapon schematics which come from the powerful frame black armory weapons. So to farm that new Rampage mod, I need to be breaking down my less valuable weapons, or infusing them. Then comes a "community event", where you suddenly need to have all the weapons. And since Ada-1 only allows specific frames per week, you could be completely locked out and unable to participate. And that happened because Bungie locked their new mods in a new ecosystem requiring mats from the new weapons, but also increased the power level making the weapons valuable infusion. It almost feels like Bungie tricked me into using up something as part of a mod/power level grind only to reveal later that I could have done things more efficiently.

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  • I guess with activision now outta the picture we’ll see in future releases who mismanaged and who was fumbling the ball. Possibly idk.

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  • I don't know what you said but you said alot so it must be important, so I'm going to agree.

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    • As someone else posted the other day, all Bungie had to do was communicate clearly. Announce that there would be a 24 hour window where people could try and open Niobe Labs by solving the puzzles. The first team to do so would receive a special emblem, shader, sparrow and ship. If no one solved the puzzle then after 24 hours the labs would open up to everyone.

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      • Disagree. That Last wish raid unlock worked because: 1. The "puzzle" was the raid itself. 2. The puzzle was directed at the **sub-community** that would expect such things, and enjoy them. 3. The only thing that was "gated" behind the raid was content that no one knew existed. The Corrupted strike. The Shattered Throne dungeon. 4. The community at large was not being held hostage. As most people hadn't reached the power level necessary to access the raid at the time....and The Dreaming City wasn't locked behind first raid clear. So while the "elite" were figuring out how to try to beat the raid....there was PLENTY for me to do in and around the Dreaming City. Niobe Labs failed because: 1. It was the wrong experience for the wrong situation. You put up one of the hardest puzzles this franchise has ever seen.....and it was OUTSIDE of the raids. Where every other puzzle of that intensity had been limited to before. 2. The puzzle was structured in a way that only a very tiny minority of players could participate in any substantive way. So the vast majority of the player base was reduced to either sitting on the sidelines....or firing up Twitch and shooting suggestions at streamers. Not the idea of fun for most adult gamers in the player base. 3. Instead of being a "side" thing.....this was CENTRAL. You basically couldn't progress to do the new content that everyone was expecting, until this puzzle had been solved. So back to point 2. Nothing to do for the vast majority but to basically sit and watch what was basically a promotional event for Bungie....and a bone thrown to streamers and content creators. TLDR: If this puzzle had been saved for a raid exotic quest....it would have been a hit. But to gate content for the community as a whole behind it. Behind an "event" that 99.99% of the player base was effectively locked OUT of? Bad idea. Doomed to failure from the start. The only thing that could have saved it was if it got solved so quickly that its impact on the rest of the community was easy to ignore. But it wasn't.....which led to the trainwreck.

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        • You really need to coles note this stuff, boil it done to the essential points. The book has got to go.

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          • Really interesting feedback. I’ll bet you’re right.

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          • Bungie has community managers, that do little to actually work with the community.

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          • https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/250514753?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1 This community needs to provide constructive feedback like your, like a few others I have seen so that bungie can provide interesting content and not totally divide the players.

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