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6/15/2016 6:25:43 PM
4
Two counterpoints: The way Viking Funeral works now is... Actually, it's not anything because it barely works. If the debuff was 50% damage like Melting Point, or even just 30% damage like Shadowshot, you might have a point. You made fun of people complaining about a 6% damage change on Doctrine, but touted a 5% damage change as though it was a fair trade on Viking Funeral. As well, the stacking mechanic seems poorly implemented. Particularly when combined with solar grenades it seems to behave inconsistently. Time will tell, but I'd be willing to bet they're going to have to revisit that change before too long. The evasion abilities were fun. They made the characters feel fast and dynamic. The nerfs they received are doubly frustrating, first because they reduced the feeling of dynamism those abilities added to the game, and second because they demonstrate a philosophy of refusing to progress the gameplay mechanics for fear that certain groups of players will be upset that they have to adapt. So not only is an interesting new mechanic pruned unnecessarily, but the next cool new thing we might have gotten is likely to be neutered as well.
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  • 由Pappy編輯: 6/15/2016 6:57:36 PM
    I appreciate your counterpoints, and I agree that someone may look at the Viking funeral perk later on to improve it more. I understand it doing less that Melting Point (risk/reward tradeoff, and duration) and shadowshot (spammable grenade versus super), and I think that is why it is capped at 15% rather than higher. It seems like a pair of Sunsingers could keep that debuff active longer and more consistently, also, which may account for the choice. As for the evasion abilities, I think the changes make them more defensive/evasion now, as opposed to offensive abilities. I think that was an argument for/against blink year 1, as to what it *should* be for. Ultimately, aggressive players will find a way to close quickly, but it is more enjoyable fighting it out, rather than helplessly watching a hunter shed all tracking grenades and be almost unhittable while they close with a shotty. I think the changes make that ability more about escape now rather than attack. I think that is a good thing, although I know others feel strongly the other way.

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  • I appreciate your reasoned debate as well. Regarding Viking Funeral, the duration is the same as Melting Point now that the burn cannot be extended. That duration is much, [i]much[/i] shorter than Shadowshot, with the only way to extend it being to use Radiance to boost grenade regeneration. For those reasons 30% (and no stacks) seems a very fair tradeoff to me, but I still don't think 50% is out of line considering that keeping the burn going means the Sunsinger must keep throwing grenades, reducing his ability to keep firing on a raid boss. That is a disadvantage the Nightstalker does not have. Regarding evasion abilities, I don't think there was anything wrong with aggressive players using them to close distance. I don't think snipers need to be nerfed, but they didn't need any help either. I think I saw a statistic that said something like 40% of the kills in Trials over a weekend are from sniper rifles. The evasion mechanics gave an opportunity for counterplay that's been removed. This is dangerous for snipers, because if Bungie decides to act on those stats they may not be gentle. It would be better just to allow people to employ character builds that counter a specific playstyle. After all, isn't that the point of having different builds in the first place?

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  • I agree it should be closer to 30 overall, maybe with more stacks allowable or something along those lines. But overall, that is a tweak to what i see as a good modification to the game. It was simply not fun to burn FOREVER from a warlock grenade, so the change addresses that without really ruining the subclass (both situations, two flamebolts with the burn would kill you, both situations require actually closing to finish off the target, new situation is just less frustrating for the player being burned), but also improving its support ability in PvE. In regards to snipers, there needs to be an adjustment to them. They are really too good, even if there is a component of skill. When it comes down to it, they can kill faster than [b]any primary at any range[/b], which is the major issue- there needs to be a bit more "risk" associated with them, because they are way over used right now, and it really slows down the matches and makes them less enjoyable. I dont think evasion abilities can fully answer that requirement- I think it will require something a bit more directed in order to address it properly.

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  • I would gladly trade the old burn duration for some raid utility if it was an even trade. I disagree, though, that doubling or tripling the potency of the debuff is a minor tweak. As it stands at present, the new Viking Funeral is straight up terrible. Snipers are a strong weapon to be sure, but I don't want to take something other players like and trash it. There's way too much of that going around already. I much prefer the idea that gameplay should grow in complexity over time, not that it should be chained to a minimal set of mechanics. The evasion abilities were a good example of that. If we keep seeing everything in the game that feels significant nerfed we'll be well on our way back to 90's era Doom. I suppose that's more of a philosophical argument than a balance one, but I think that's where we are now. Things aren't being nerfed because they're overpowered. They're being nerfed because they influence gameplay too much compared to other mechanics that certain people think should be more central to the gameplay experience. I say, let them influence things. It keeps the game interesting.

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