Thorn is clearly op, best in class rate of fire, second fastest ttk in the game and a burn that kills your shields, crucible shouldn't be about playing around one gun.

Thorn + Last Word have the capabilities to kill you in [i]less than a second at close-mid ranges.[/i] Far quicker than most other weapons in the game, and we're talking hundreds upon hundreds of guns that are all regulated for use in regular Crucible. At that point, it's not a matter of "adapting", it's a matter of bad game design, especially when your only constructive answer is to retaliate with the Red Death, another highly powerful weapon that restores you to full health after every kill. Skill is always a factor, and there will always be variables, but at the end of the day, it's the hard statistics and consistency of a weapon's performance that have the final say.

So, you force me to use another OP weapon to beat another Op weapon? Can you start thinking? Glad bungie doesn't have you in their team. LOL. You would make this game unplayable. Kids these days...

Thorn is a gun, it's used frequently. Big deal, I know this is the forums, where the all the idiots rage about everything (despite the occasional good points/ideas...and offtopic....ugh.) But it isn't a big deal, something may and/or will be done about it. Your little rant will not make a difference, just like the one I made wont make a difference...positively or negatively. If it does, I'm so flattered :)

So get another op gun? You miss why it's hated but glad to know you're such a good little boy

It would be one thing to adapt if one or two people on s team use it but when 4-6 people use it it makes red death irrelevant when you get hit by multiple thorns I don't want to have to be pigeon holes into using the same weapons like is variety to much to ask for

Adapt? Really? So I can't use my beautiful hard light because it won't counter thorn? That's -blam!-ing retarded I don't want to change my play style because some fgt wants to use the most op weapon in the game

Nope. RD is no good unless perfect connection no bullet loss straight to head. TLW is the only option here. Outshoots Thornies everytime. EVERYTIME. But that said the poison still gets me sometimes after theyre dead. Now fusion rifles....

I've played PVP with and without it. Getting killed by Thorn is really not that different than getting killed by Hawkmoon. Hawkmoon hits harder and takes the same amount of shots as Thorn thanks to its burn. It's six of one and half dozen of the other. Thorn is more visible which is why it gets all the attention. Bottom line, learn to dodge better. Play better defense, don't always go on the offense.

The only people that defends the constant use of thorn are people who always play with it or people who doesn't play pvp.

Cool we are limited to 2 guns to counter thorn Last word Red death. If only 2 guns can counter thorn effectively that shit needs a nerf.

How is thorns fire rate detrimental? The only hc faster is tlw...

People complaining about Thorn have every right to hate that gun. Thorn and Last Word have simply ruined the experience of high level Crucible play, such as Iron Banner and Trials. Those modes are simply an exotic handcannon fest. I can adapt to fight Thorn. My K/D is 1.67 and I'm ranked within like the top 6% of the world. But....I think Thorn and Last Word need a slight nerf and autos need to have their damage nerf removed. There is NO question about how forgiving exotic handcannons are to casual players and pros alike. The hitboxes are ridiculous. The damage they can do in such a small amount of time is ridiculous. Both Thorn and LW can kill you as fast as a MG. Last Word's perk is glitched in favor of people who use it, as you don't need to ADS fully to get the benefit of the perk. Thorn is a walking nightmare because it is like having a sniper rifle as a primary (and much better than NLB). In vanilla Crucible modes, like Clash, exotic handcannons aren't really as big of a problem, because in the level dependent modes everyone uses them to get an edge. Still, they have pretty much become the "guns to hate" among the Destiny community [b]for a reason[/b]. It's the same exact reason people hated auto rifles and Suros in the early months of the game. Almost every time someone was killed in PvP, it was by Suros or another auto. That's because they used to be OP. I actually quit playing IB last week, before I even hit rank 2, because I just got so sick of all the exotic HC users. Went back to vanilla Crucible and it was like the difference between night and day. To me, it's completely obvious that Thorn and LW need some tweaking. I'm almost positive Bungie will nerf them soon, because they have become a huge problem in level dependent Crucible. I don't mind when people hate on OP guns.