its a good gun, i still get out gunned by suros, vex, ar's in general when using it, if you use it right though, as in move about and be a hard target to hit, it can be effective, its still the same gun that it has been since launch, except for 3 extra bullets and quicker reload, i don't know why all the attention has been brought onto the thorn now, its always performed well in pvp..........ive had good games with it and bad......suros is still probably the best all rounder.