I despise Glasslands, Thursday War, and whatever the third book is going to be :/ I only read Glasslands and that was a horrendous chore, I didn't enjoy any of it because of the mutilation Karen Traviss did to the characters, setting, and story...whatever else it may have been or whatever else it might be, Primordium at least stayed true to canon and Greg Bear respects what's been established and doesn't decide that his way is better no matter how far from canon it might be, he sticks with the previous story and stays true to its portrayal of races, characters, and setting...not the case at all with Travissty. The character's name is Osman....and that's just one thing in a long list of breaches that Travissty made and 343i themselves are perpetuating. ONI doesn't have the power or authority to do any of the evil shit they're trying to pull in either the Glasslands Trilogy or in Spartan Ops. Nothing they've been doing with Halsey is at all exciting, it's character bashing of the worst degree, I mean seriously, the way that 343idiocy and Travissty are behaving you'd think Halsey is the devil incarnate and the second coming of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Osama Bin Laden, Sadam Hussein, and every other known evil dictator all rolled into one. And not to mention mis-characterizing Halsey herself as well to fit the non-canon bull-shit they keep coming up with >_>

Actually, ONI's been doing A LOT of illegal evil things before Travis took over and wrote Glasslands. Remember the Mona Lisa short story in Halo Evolutions? ONI got a bunch of human and Sangheli prisoners, infected them with the Flood, and got scientists to find a cure and even try to tame them and make them into warriors for the UNSC. And if I remember correctly, the ONI scientist John Smith escaped, and guess what, ONI apparently used him as a scapegoat. Even in the other novels, I think it's implied they're very evil and [b]do[/b] have the authority to pull evil shit. Also, I didn't get through all of Glasslands yet, but isn't the "Halsey is an evil incarnate of Satan,etc." from the perspective of the ONI personnel (therefore very biased). Halsey's been known to be very hostile, and even believes she can break rules and get away with it (and she does a lot of times in the war, I presume, because of her status as the creator of the Spartan II class and one of the brightest scientists the UNSC has), which would definitely piss off ONI (who I get the impression believe they're top dog). A nice example would be when Halsey ordered flash clones of the Spartan II candidates when they were abducted, which Parangosky did not know about until a while after? I remember reading somewhere else that a group of smart AIs believed that the reason Halsey was so hostile was a chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters in her brain, which shows that she does (kind of) have an attitude that would piss others off. That could be a reason why ONI doesn't like her. Also, about your comment saying Elits wanting to slaughter humans is stupid, I beg to disagree. How could two species, that fought along with one another for a few mere months, vs decades of constant bloodshed trust each other? Sure, there a few honorable ones like the Arbiter (well, Thel Vadam now I guess), but remember most of them joined the humans because they had a common enemy who was going to kill all sentient life in the galaxy! Even in Halo 3, A LOT of the elites still referred Master Chief as "Demon" whereas only a few called him Spartan. Most of the Elites don't hate humans (if I remember correctly from Glasslands), they're just afraid the humans will now try betraying them to ensure their safety, which is VERY sensible because even during their co operation against Truth, there was still tension (like the Shipmaster telling Hood he'd have glassed all of Earth if it weren't for the Arbiter), meaning in a sense, Truth and the Loyalist covenant held their alliance *very loosely* together. Now that enemy is gone/extremely weakened, it's sensible most Elites, and most humans, are wary of each other. Also, the Elites slaughter billions of humans and destroyed countless wars, I don't the odds are very likely that many humans are fond of them. The Sangheli are being smart, especially since there are people like Osman and Parangosky and other ONI pricks around (who don't want peace, in my opinion, but power......what better way for humanity to progress if the Sangheli are weakened/fighting each other?) "Gone is all the hard work and information showing them to respect humanity and value them as worthy and honorable opponents and worthy of being inducted into the Covenant " ^^Yeah, we only saw VERY little of that during Halo 3. I'm sure the only reason the Elites fought alongside humans was that they wanted Truth dead, and humanity gave them more numbers and a hyper lethal vector (Chief) who was very capable of foiling the Loyalist's plans. To point out the fact that most Eilites weren't human sympathizers/friendly towards the Chief, notice that only the Arbiter was present at the Voi ceremony at the end of Halo 3? Well, that's my opinion on the matter at least. OT: The Thursday War looks pretty decent so far.

[quote]How could two species, that fought along with one another for a few mere months, vs decades of constant bloodshed trust each other?[/quote] It's not an issue of trust, it's an issue of the Elites being cast in a stereotypical way; it's the flanderization from the Flood taken to a whole new level. You don't just have mistrust, ambivalence or passivity, you've got an entire species of warmongering imperialists with all the same cultural values of bigotry and all the same opinions on other races. The same ineptitudes in extending basic beliefs of dignity, and empathy, to others outside their own kind, and the same idiotic racism. It's like they have an IQ of 40. The Elites made it to space on their own; they are not as thick as that. They wouldn't have made it that far if this were the case. Nothing ruins the idea of a fictional alien race like this one does. The novel also does other things like dehumanize them and even goes as far as undermining the innocence of children. There ain't much left to salvage after something like that has been written. Just 3 months prior, they were one of the most powerful forces in the Orion Arm; now, Humanity can put craters in their homeworld with ease any time they want. And the Elites are not cast in a positive light once to make Humanity look like shitheads for planning genocide. It reads rather like a power fantasy revenge fic with a Mary Sue Human race. And then there's mass murdering over land... A space faring species with access to the whole galaxy is butchering woman and children over small patches of land on the home world... The author has no sense of scale, and is entirely too negligent of the Elites honour code. I understand showing them as not adhering to that all the time, but it's getting silly now. If you know anything about the Great Schism, it will immediately tell you that Traviss' interpretation of the Elites is bullshit. The Prophet of Truth had the Elites removed because they were unfit for a job such as exterminating an entire sentient species; they became too "heretical" and started questioning their orders too much. This is obviously far more than understatements of "a few Elites doubted". You don't just throw away your entire empire because of a fringe sect. [quote]Sure, there a few honorable ones like the Arbiter (well, Thel Vadam now I guess), but remember most of them joined the humans because they had a common enemy who was going to kill all sentient life in the galaxy![/quote] The Elites coming to Humanity for help against the Prophet of Truth and the Flood would be like trying to use a AA battery to power your cooker. [quote]Even in Halo 3, A LOT of the elites still referred Master Chief as "Demon" whereas only a few called him Spartan.[/quote] They also refer to him as Reclaimer at times. [quote]Most of the Elites don't hate humans (if I remember correctly from Glasslands), they're just afraid the humans will now try betraying them to ensure their safety,[/quote] Well they did start a pogrom over the issue of what to do with Humanity. Thel had 0 allies whilst his enemies ranks billowed with new supporters. I'd say they are portrayed as cliché in TTW. [quote]which is VERY sensible because even during their co operation against Truth, there was still tension (like the Shipmaster telling Hood he'd have glassed all of Earth if it weren't for the Arbiter), meaning in a sense, Truth and the Loyalist covenant held their alliance *very loosely* together. Now that enemy is gone/extremely weakened, it's sensible most Elites, and most humans, are wary of each other.[/quote] It goes beyond mistrust though. They have these ideas of Humans being expansionist and deceitful. The issue with the former is that its a blatant contradiction to only everything we've ever known about UNSC space. The latter makes the Elites look hilariously inept in warfare and politics, and hypocritical because they were no better. [quote]Also, the Elites slaughter billions of humans and destroyed countless wars, I don't the odds are very likely that many humans are fond of them. [/quote] Most surviving Human worlds don't know the full extent of the war due to ONI Section 2 propaganda. As it is, this is one of the few things I think Traviss got right, because it seems that Humanity does want peace in Kilo-5 judging from the EUG president's inauguration speech. [quote]^^Yeah, we only saw VERY little of that during Halo 3.[/quote] They aren't Humans, and have entirely different values to us. Their whole culture was built around "The harder you fight, the more I'll respect you". It wasn't just physical prowess either, it was intellect, fortitude, and cunning. The Elites had a respect for culture too. These were retconned in Glasslands to the rather banal matter of physical prowess only. The thing about Halo 3 is that you clearly see the tension dissolve somewhat. Rtas goes from being very prickly and hostile hostile to Lord Hood to showing respect for characters like Chief and Keyes. The handshake at the end between Hood and Thel was a symbolic gesture. N'tho was also described to be part of a growing grassroots movement within Elite society that respected Humanity and sympathized with them. Now that has been kind of undermined, we have the Elites back as enemies again with no dignity, being completely dominated by the stormtrooper effect and "Always Chaotic Evil" tropes.

"[quote]because it seems that Humanity does want peace in Kilo-5 judging from the EUG president's inauguration speech."[/quote] Humanity wants peace with the Sangheli? I thought Kilo 5's job was to make sure the Elites keep on fighting each other so they'll ignore humans? Also, about ONI section II propaganda not showing the full extent of the war, that does NOT apply to the military leaders like Hood, Parangosky (and now Osman I guess since she's the new head of ONI). These are the people the Elites fear, and destroying all of human kind/drastically weakening them through slaughter will give humanity's greatest military leaders little chance of destroying the Sangheli. [quote] Humanity can put craters in their homeworld with ease any time they want.[/quote] Also, it's implied that, after the war with the Covenant ended, that humanity refocused greater attention on science and technology. Sure, on the surface, it may seem, like "How the hell did humanity advance so quickly right after the war with the covenant ended", but you're definitely ignoring the fact that, during the war there were TONS of scientists doing research/developing models, theories, prototypes,etc. on covenant and forerunner technology and FINALLY when the covenant were no longer a huge threat, the UNSC could finally divert funds from weapon and vehicle manufacturing to finally using DECADES of scientific data to progress mankind. It's a little bit hard trying to spend money on things like lighter gen MJOLNIR or forerunner engines when a human colony is getting glassed or invaded by covenant, and millions of humans are dying every year. But at the end of the human war, the covenant war over, and now humanity was safer, so more effort could be spent on making years of scientific discoveries/postulations into reality (which would make humanity MUCH stronger), that's MY TAKE on why the UNSC became so advanced in a short time the point where the Elites were a less significant threat. An example of this is when the Infinity finally gets put into action after the war. You're also forgetting there's about A LOT of Spartan IVs being mass produced in the post war era, there must be a lot of anti human Elites getting their asses kicked (I'd reckon maybe a team of 4 Spartan IV supersoldiers would possibly be the equivalent of 1-2 good Spartan IIs, meaning there was a LOT more ass wooping on the UNSC's part). [quote]The latter makes the Elites look hilariously inept in warfare and politics, and hypocritical because they were no better.[/quote] You DO know that the San Shyuum piggybacked the elites when it came to technological warfare and even poliitics. Although most Elites were good warriors, it was the prophets making the big calls, and this could have weakened their ability to "fly solo" because of the centuries of piggy backing and leeching they were doing. Even if a few intelligent ones like Thel Vadam want to negotiate a treaty, there's A LOT of bloodthirsty warriors disagreeing with him, preferring brute force over cunning and political strategy (I remember reading that the prophets did most of this for the elites in the novels). [quote]If you know anything about the Great Schism, it will immediately tell you that Traviss' interpretation of the Elites is bullshit. The Prophet of Truth had the Elites removed because they were unfit for a job such as exterminating an entire sentient species; they became too "heretical" and started questioning their orders too much. This is obviously far more than understatements of "a few Elites doubted". You don't just throw away your entire empire because of a fringe sect. [/quote] And you're completely (!) ignoring Ghosts of Onyx. Remember when that shipmaster and his fleet discovered that the prophets lied to them, they STILL wanted to kill the humans and form "a new and better covenant". Also, you completely ignored a few KEY moments in The Cole Protocol (another novel). The Prophet of Truth sent the Arbiter and a few of his top men to be slaughtered by a group of Brutes, unbeknownst to the naive Elites. The Prophet of Truth even told the Brutes, and some jackals in on the plan to kill a few of the most prominent elites, that one day they would succeed the Elites (who would be disbanded from the covenant). However, the Elites' physical skill allows them to beat the Brutes, and before his death, one of the Chieftains tells Thel Vdam that the Prophets will one day betray the elites (something along the lines of that). Thel doesn't believe him, and even approaches the Prophet of Truth who denies it. When the Arbiter found out in Halo 2 that the Elites were being used, NOT becoming too heretical. Truth and the other prophets played the Elites, and when the Arbiter told the other Elites this, their BEST chance of revenge was teaming up with humans. After all, in the beginning of the Halo3 mission the Ark, an Elite remarks (even with a few human forces on their side) "they outnumber us three to one". Humanity gave the elites numbers AND proof that, even without the elites, they could destroy Halo rings, which was, in my opinion, [u]the best way[/u] to foil Truth's plans and make a heavy hit to the Loyalist Covenant's key belief that they live and breathe (that a Great Journey will be initiated when the Halo rings are fired). One example I'd like to point out for this is that Jul has no real resentment for the humans (until they kill his wife). but remarks it as impossible to live in peace with someone who was an enemy for so long. Of course, there IS a chance that humanity would not bother the Elites, but WHAT IF? After the war, the elites are in much smaller numbers (many died during the Great Schism, and the war against the humans) and have POOR control over technology (it was stated multiple times in the books the prophets did this for the Elites). They also lacked, or had very little, Forerunner Engineers to make advanced armor and guns. This, along with the fact that the UNSC diverted more money to science and technology over guns after the war (A LOT can be accomplished with a bigger budget and bunch of top notch scientists on YEARS of forerunner excavated data and even covenant technology), meant that the Elites would be definitely weaker in terms of technology, which accounts for why "humans can blow craters through their worlds". All of the extra money that would have been spent on tanks and even propaganda, etc. could be used to manufacture MANY prototypes devleloped over the course of the war that the UNSC (then) didn't have the funding to attend to. Another explanation I've heard over at the Halo waypoint forum is that only the humans can access some, if not most, Forerunner technology (possibly because the Librarian indexed them with the ability to quickly rediscover the advanced science the Forerunners stripped the Ancient Humans of). Perhaps it was planned for humans to easily reaquire technological advancement after the covenant (who probably can't access a lot of it) dig up holes all over the planets leading to these artifacts. Even Lord Hood, probably one of the few humans who respected the Elites, and Thel Vadam, who respected humans, said that he has no plans of real friendly co-operative peace, just living side by side, and not shooting on another to death, so a neutral relationship (this was mentioned in glasslands). Both of these people knew finding true respect from all members of both parties was not very likely. Also, it isn't the Elites that are shown with no dignity, in the Thursday War, I just read the section where Kilo 5 helps the monks and Lord Hood helps the Arbiter on purpose so they can make the Elites kill each other more (destroying their numbers and keeping them distracted). This, in my opinion, takes away some evil from the Elites, because Hood, the man "who shook Thel's hand and showed his immense respect" was lying to the Arbiter's face. This DOES give the Storm sect SOME justification in killing humans, who are manipulating them, and even being slightly evil. To your comment saying some Elites called Master Chief Reclaimer, while others called him demon, I remember reading somewhere that the younger Elites addressed Chief as Spartan or Reclaimer, while the older ones (the Majors in the red armor) and higher class ones, aside from a few like the Arbiter, called him demon. Obviously, the older ones would have preferred a temporary truce, because it's slightly hard for them to trust a species they've been in constant conflict for nearly three decades (and they're justified, people like Paranagosky want the Elites to weaken and die off, a la creation of Kilo 5). Also, I may have mentioned this before, but it was stated in the books that the Elites weren't that advanced until the San Shyuum gave them their technology, and even politics (on one of the 343 sites, it says that during the human-covenant war, Zealots mainly fought in battle and retrieved religious articifacts, but after the war, they resumed their role as political advisors, meaning the Elites spent A LOT of time of the Prophets doing MOST of their political interactions). Also, although Elites were cunning in how to physically conquer another enemy, when it came to things like being told what to do the Elites would show BLIND faith in the Prophets. In Halo: The Cole Protocol, an elder tries to telling the Abiter (when he was a young highly ranked warrior) that the Prophets were once their enemies, and the Arbiter calls him speaking heresy and the conversation stops right there. Perhaps this is why the Elites want to just kill the humans: they don't know how to negotiate peace, for CENTURIES they were merely killing machines)

[quote]Humanity wants peace with the Sangheli? I thought Kilo 5's job was to make sure the Elites keep on fighting each other so they'll ignore humans?[/quote] Kilo-5 isn't synonymous with Humanity, nor is ONI at this point. It is evident that Kilo-5's existence and activities are against the wishes of the UNSC and the UEG. The President of the EUG made a vow to Humanity that they will remain assertive when it comes to other races and seek peaceful co-operation, not to become the Imperium of Man. Kilo-5 and Parangosky would face public disgrace and a firing squad for their actions. [quote]Also, about ONI section II propaganda not showing the full extent of the war, that does NOT apply to the military leaders like Hood, Parangosky (and now Osman I guess since she's the new head of ONI). These are the people the Elites fear,[/quote] The only thing they have seen of Humanity's leadership is Hood's promises of peace. Other than that, they don't know anything - can't know anything - else about Human leadership. There's no basis for their sudden knowledge of Human leadership being particularly clandestine. This is merely something pulled out of thin air to drive the ol' conflict ball. The more they find out, the more they should see a Humanity that is unwilling to fight any more wars. [quote]but you're definitely ignoring the fact that, during the war there were TONS of scientists doing research/developing models, theories, prototypes,etc. on covenant and forerunner technology and FINALLY when the covenant were no longer a huge threat, the UNSC could finally divert funds from weapon and vehicle manufacturing to finally using DECADES of scientific data to progress mankind.[/quote] The UNSC lost most of their worlds and population, and have to rebuild Earth almost from the ground up. Not sure where the money is coming from to fund all these research projects and sponsor mass re-armament. Counting the beans isn't that important anyway, its how inept and weakened the Elites have become. In the course of 3 months they went from unstoppable to being dominated by a single Human warship at their own home planet. I have a hard time believing that ALL the Engineers vanished, and that they lost ALL of their production facilities. I have a hard time believing that they have absolutely no division of labour whatsoever and can't even grow their own food. This is Planet of Hats gone insane to me. It just seems like a contrived way to make Humans the top dog. Self-flattery at its finest. The Elites have been space faring for more than 3000 years; their empire in comparison to Humanity should be enormous, as should be the number of ships they have. Even though they have lost a lot, relative to Human standards they should still have a large number, more than Humanity. They also have all (Or most, assuming the Brutes got some) of their worlds still intact and have a much larger population still. Humanity should be of no concern to them. Their residual production capabilities alone should be more than enough to deal with what is left of Humanity should trouble ever arise. [quote]You DO know that the San Shyuum piggybacked the elites when it came to technological warfare and even politics. Although most Elites were good warriors, it was the prophets making the big calls, and this could have weakened their ability to "fly solo" because of the centuries of piggy backing and leeching they were doing.[/quote] The extent of the Prophet's intervention in the Elite's command of the military was "Go here and fetch these Forerunner relics/destroy this world". It was left to the Elites to decide how to do that. That's why it was so easy to scapegoat Thel for Halo's destruction. The Elites were more than capable of guerilla warfare, spying, assassinations and other clandestine activities; the existence of Ossoona's and the Special Warfare Group depends on it. As for politics, you seem to be acting under the assumption of "One species; one culture". Yes, the Elites didn't do much in the way of inter-species diplomacy, but they did do a lot in the way of diplomacy between different Elite nations and colonies, and even affairs within the same nation (Or State). The Prophets had almost no say in things at this level. In The Cole Protocol, we see assassination, collusion and political intrigue play a big part in their governance, and Thel also seems to have to make the case clear that he will not tolerate corruption in his absence. That implies that it happens. The Elites are no strangers to any of it. They were just as capable and intelligent, and cunning, in the council chamber as they were on the battlefield. [quote]And you're completely (!) ignoring Ghosts of Onyx. Remember when that shipmaster and his fleet discovered that the prophets lied to them, they STILL wanted to kill the humans and form "a new and better covenant".[/quote] He received his orders from an Imperial Admiral who commands hundreds of starships; a position of huge influence that is somewhat idolized by Elites far and wide. You better make sure that your Imperial Admirals are totally indoctrinated to the faith and your orders, otherwise you might have a few usurpers on your hands like the Roman Empire frequently had to deal with. It's no surprise that Xytan gave those orders. Also, he only knew of the Prophet's betrayal. Nothing else. Not the truth of the Halo's or the other things that would have shook Covenant faith to its crumbling foundations. We can't assert anything on his actions had he known these things. Voro did however demonstrate that same ambivalence that a lot of Elites had about Humanity's destruction when he faced Kurt for the last time. [quote]Thel doesn't believe him, and even approaches the Prophet of Truth who denies it.[/quote] Are you saying in that part of your post that because Truth denied the accusations levelled against him that he is therefore innocent of them? I don't think that's credible. By the way I think you're confusing events. Truth doesn't send Thel to be killed. Regret sends them to investigate modified Covenant weapons which are being used by Truth to find Human worlds when they get circulated by the Jackal and Innie deals. Truth and Regret didn't communicate over this plot therefore the mix-up with Thel being sent to investigate on Regret's part. The Brutes tried to kill Thel not under orders but because they wanted the recognition of exposing the Jackals plot first to Regret. Back to Truth however, it is in The Cole Protocol near the end when he is talking with Regret that he says that only [i]some[/i] of the Elites are trustworthy now, and Regret agrees calling them dangerous because of their beliefs. With Zhar we see why this is; there is more common ground between Elites and Humans than the Elites think, and more than what the Hierarchs are comfortable with, and an increasing number begin to notice and find some sympathy for the Humans. [quote]When the Arbiter found out in Halo 2 that the Elites were being used, NOT becoming too heretical.[/quote] The two are the same thing. They were being played because Truth new their usefulness had run out. The mantle of the Arbiter is usually something justified in creation and used during times of great need. One was created to bring the Hunters under control, another to put down a huge Grunt Rebellion. What was so dire about a group of dissident Elites holed up in a Gas Mine? How was the creation of an Arbiter justified to the High Council during this time to deal with them? In what way were they a threat to the stability of the Covenant? It seems only logical to me that Sesa's "heretical" broadcasts were beginning to accelerate the Elite's degrading trust and faith before Truth was ready to make his move, thus threatening the Council's hold over Covenant society. I've went over some of plot a priori, but as far as direct evidence goes, [url=http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=16989]this explicitly tells us[/url]. [quote]Humanity gave the elites numbers AND proof that, even without the elites, they could destroy Halo rings, which was, in my opinion, the best way to foil Truth's plans[/quote] At the time when the story was concluded, Humanity was almost extinct and only had a few colonies left, and about 3 Frigates left to stop Truth going to the Ark. Not much has changed on that either. That's not much of a contribution to the Elites, each of whose ships can take on at least 3 Human ships at once. Humanity's military was smashed, and there were 30 Covenant vessels on the other side of that portal. I don't imagine Hood or Thel embarrassing themselves in front of Rtas by putting forward the idea that Humanity could help at all. Master Chief is good and all, but he isn't going to do anything if Truth's fleet just massacres your fleet before getting to ground. [quote]Also, I may have mentioned this before, but it was stated in the books that the Elites weren't that advanced until the San Shyuum gave them their technology, and even politics[/quote] Whilst Humans were building mud huts and thatched barns, the Elites were zooming around the galaxy in slipspace capable starships. They had advanced technology, and civilization before the Prophets. [quote]In Halo: The Cole Protocol, an elder tries to telling the Abiter (when he was a young highly ranked warrior) that the Prophets were once their enemies, and the Arbiter calls him speaking heresy and the conversation stops right there.[/quote] All I remember is that by the end of the book Thel had undergone a clear change in character and was now a lot more open minded. He was blind before, which is to be expected given his position of Zealot, but by the end his faith was loosened.

Sure, some Elites began questioning, but you can't generalize that to most Elites felt sorry for humans and helped them *sure there are a few examples, but saying all of the Elites, or even most, is a huge generalization*. The shipmaster in Halo 3 was still wary of humans halfway through the game, [u]even explicitily telling Hood he would have glassed the entirety of Earth if it were not for the Arbiter's counsel.[/u] Yeah, he TOTALLY respects humans, directly telling an Admiral that he still isn't fond of humans. He even admitted that it was solely the Arbiter who prevented him from massacring the humans. Have you considered the reason that many Elites joined humans was because they were mad at the covenant for killing the high councellors (I forgot their official name, but it was a group of 12ish prominent Elites). They, therefore, shared the common enemy of humans, and instead of a three way conflict, could help turn the tables and destroy the Loyalist sec of the Covenant? Also, once again, A LOT of the major elites in Halo 3 refer to Master Chief as demon, and only the Blue Elites refer to him as Spartan. I just replayed the level FloodGate and observed that. Blue colored Elites (Elite minors) are new to the conflict, whereas the old timers have been killing humans for years, causing tension, and probably even distrust towards humans(Jul Mdama and his wife are PRIME examples of this, as this is their reasoning for fighting against humans, as explained in Glasslands). "Oh yeah, I just helped slaughter billions of their people, they're totally going to forgot about it and now try to screw us over". [quote]Kilo-5 isn't synonymous with Humanity, nor is ONI at this point. It is evident that Kilo-5's existence and activities are against the wishes of the UNSC and the UEG.[/quote] Once again, I'm not talking about the general population, I'm referring to the select few military leaders who the covenant fear. Kilo 5 does represent ONI, in my opinion, because it was, in the end, ONI's decision to make Kilo 5 go screw over the covenant (Parangosky was the one who formed, or at least played a huge part in the formation of Kilo 5, no?) It is these people the Elites probably fear, not a the average citizen who does his job. But what are they going to do, just go kill every military leader and leave the rest of humanity alone, who'll probably just retaliate and cause another war, or just kill all humans (which is MUCH easier, especially considering how many losses the Elites have suffered over the years, and the lack of technology and Huragok).

Not from what I recall. He's still very devout, and I believe even chastises the elder for speaking heresy against the "glorious" prophets. Even near the end of the book, one of the older elites in his special ops units noted how humans were similar, because a wounded soldier stayed behind to fend off the elites, even comparing how humans may be similar to the elites. The other elites basically told him to shut up. Maybe the Arbiter's views were slightly loosened, but I just reread the ending of cole protocol, and he's still extremely devout to the Covenant. [quote]Whilst Humans were building mud huts and thatched barns, the Elites were zooming around the galaxy in slipspace capable starships. They had advanced technology, and civilization before the Prophets.[/quote] That is COMPLETELY wrong. Primordium, Halo 4 and Cryptum all stated the ancient humans were just as advanced as the Forerunners, in fact they were arguably even more advanced than the Forerunners because they found the cure to the Flood (at the cost of half of their population though) and were about to achieve the Mantle. The Forerunners, however, mistook their good intentions (of glassing Flood infested Forerunner planets) and used their significantly larger numbers to capture humans and de-evolve them into primates. Also, the Prophets had civilization BEFORE the elites, it was said in cryptum that the ancient humans and san shyuum were good allies, and as depicted in Halo legends, when the Librarian re introduced the species (before the Halo rings fired), at the time of the human forerunner conflict, the elites were still in an ancient society (they were wearing toga like cloth, and there were ancient buildings behind them). Also the books DIRECTLY stated (I think it was Harvest) that the prophets had significantly (!) superior technology to the elites, which helped them proclaim their dominance, even though the elites were far more superior in the battle field. Also, [i]once again[/i] you are forgetting that the Librarian helped humanity as MUCH as she possibly could. An example is when she indexes humanity, "creating seeds behind the Didact's back", means she manipulated human genetics so there would be a wide array of intelligent people able to decipher forerunner technology. Also, notice that Glassman can build a forerunner portal, with limited tools, whereas no elite possess the prowess to do it? The Librarian didn't meddle with Sangheli genetics, she DIRECTLY meddled with human genetics, in a way making them ready to face the challenge of reclaiming the model. Halsey, ALL of the scientists that developed MJOLNIR, the creation of the Shaw Fukikawa plan ALL thanks to the Librarian who made sure humanity progressed. In Halo 4, she even admits Master's Chief's armor and augmentations were part of her plan (meaning she knew she had to make some humans really intelligent, like Halsey, who is described as the "woman with an IQ of 200 and one of the smartest women in human history"). Also, it's not that big of an intuitive leap to make that ALL of the forerunner relics were on human colonies/planets near the Sol system and Earth. The Librarian MEANT for a TON OF Forerunner tech to be near Earth and NOT near Sanghelios or the Prophets homeworld (why else would the Prophets invade human worlds to find that the most valuable forerunner treasure to be underneath the humans' feet?") and she MEANT for a ton of smart people to reverse engineer that technology (a la eggheads as Palmer likes to say) to advance humanity, to the point where the covenant could pose a significantly less threat to them and they could focus their efforts on reclaiming the mantle. The Librarian even directly tells Chief in Halo 4 Halsey, and even those before her who worked on ORION, were part of her plan to help humanity reachieve their lost glory (thanks to some mean Forerunner de evolving their race). Also, your statement that "elites were on ships when humans were building mud huts" is incorrect. The Elites made a truce with the Prophets around 850 BCE,a few years after fighting (or maybe even less), this was during the time of Homer, meaning a lot of humans were advanced enough to speak languages, begin understanding math and science (heliocentric models proposed by the Ancient Greeks,etc) even AFTER they were de evolved by the Forerunners. And besides, once again, it was the Librarian's plan for humans to advance faster than the other races in the galaxy in order to reclaim the Mantle. Why else does Requiem only open to humans, and 343 GS welcome humans to Installation IV, because the Librarian WANTS humans to pick up as much as possible very quickly, with access to forerunner tech that the covenant have immense difficulty even touching. Also, the rebuilding of human worlds, or reversing the effects of glassing, falls under the domain of the UNSC Engineering Corps, I believe, which still counts as science funding. And besides, your forgetting that rebuilding a lost colony goes hand in hand with sending scouts to look for (purposefully placed) Forerunner technology, which would later fall into the hands of someone like Halsey, or even Glassman, and further accelerate human advancement. Some people over at halopedia even reckoned that, thanks to humanity not being diverted by the Covenant, they may have achieved a (low) Tier 2 ranking, which would place them above the covies (tier III) technologically. Also, you're forgetting the private sector now contributes to the UNSC a lot, to the point where they jointly create MJOLNIR armor with the UNSC for the gen IV spartans, I'm sure private investors are giving the UNSC $$$ to further progress mankind and help keep a leash on the covenant. Addressing your point of "ALL the engineers disappearing", the prophets were the one who discovered the Huragok, it's unlikely many Huragok were with the Elites when they separated from the Covenant. [quote] As for politics, you seem to be acting under the assumption of "One species; one culture". Yes, the Elites didn't do much in the way of inter-species diplomacy, but they did do a lot in the way of diplomacy between different Elite nations and colonies, and even affairs within the same nation (Or State). The Prophets had almost no say in things at this level. In The Cole Protocol, we see assassination, collusion and political intrigue play a big part in their governance, and Thel also seems to have to make the case clear that he will not tolerate corruption in his absence. That implies that it happens. The Elites are no strangers to any of it. They were just as capable and intelligent, and cunning, in the council chamber as they were on the battlefield.[/quote] What I'm trying to imply over the Prophets' rule over the Elites is that the Elites were told who to hate, and who to align with. After the war, the Elites had to start thinking or themselves. Sure, they're masterminds on the field, but when it comes to the greater picture, they were always under the influence of the prophets. Wouldn't it somewhat harder for them to adapt to [u]true independence[/u] from a governing body?

[quote][b]Posted by: GuN[/b]Actually, ONI's been doing A LOT of illegal evil things before Travis took over and wrote Glasslands. Remember the Mona Lisa short story in Halo Evolutions? ONI got a bunch of human and Sangheli prisoners, infected them with the Flood, and got scientists to find a cure and even try to tame them and make them into warriors for the UNSC. And if I remember correctly, the ONI scientist John Smith escaped, and guess what, ONI apparently used him as a scapegoat. Even in the other novels, I think it's implied they're very evil and do have the authority to pull evil shit.[/quote] Ok, lot of stuff to respond to, this is going to be one long wall of text >_> Anyways, here goes... ONI has always had very clear and defined limits on it, they couldn't go around just doing whatever they wanted and without consequences or ever being found out. Since you brought up the Mona Lisa, look how that ended, ONI's experiments on and with the Flood were found out about, and the Red Horse was sent to look for survivors and clean up the mess (such as arresting Major "John Smith"). John Smith didn't escape, he went to the Red Horse and then the captain placed him under arrest and locked him up, and was even considering spacing him, once he found out what was going on. And the Mona Lisa was done by 343i anyways, it's not as extreme an extent which Travissty's works took things, but it's still not the way Bungie had things set up. ONI has always been [i]shady[/i], they were never outright evil before 343i started mocking things up. There is a difference between some morally ambiguous actions (which all had to be authorized by the UNSC or even higher up the chain of command into the UEG), such as the Spartan Program, and which was never something they could just go and do on their own without approval, and outright evil like actively subverting the goals of the UNSC by trying to start another war with the Elites or wanting to commit a galaxy-wide genocide on all of them and committing other such breaches of power like illegal imprisonment, and so on and so on. When Bungie was in charge and running the show, ONI could certainly [i]try[/i] and secretly break the law, but it was always found out and brought into the open with everyone who could be proven to be directly involved getting the consequences for such actions. [quote]Also, I didn't get through all of Glasslands yet, but isn't the "Halsey is an evil incarnate of Satan,etc." from the perspective of the ONI personnel (therefore very biased). Halsey's been known to be very hostile, and even believes she can break rules and get away with it (and she does a lot of times in the war, I presume, because of her status as the creator of the Spartan II class and one of the brightest scientists the UNSC has), which would definitely piss off ONI (who I get the impression believe they're top dog). A nice example would be when Halsey ordered flash clones of the Spartan II candidates when they were abducted, which Parangosky did not know about until a while after? I remember reading somewhere else that a group of smart AIs believed that the reason Halsey was so hostile was a chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters in her brain, which shows that she does (kind of) have an attitude that would piss others off. That could be a reason why ONI doesn't like her.[/quote] No, not at all really. And with a good writer, the protagonists disliking another character, that doesn't automatically make the disliked evil. Like take Ackerson in TFoR and First Strike for instance, was he a massive jackass when it came to Halsey the Spartans and just in general a not at all pleasant guy? Yeah, definitely, but he was never portrayed as evil, not in my opinion at least. But that's not what Travissty does, she actively ignores, twists, or manipulates facts that have long been established as the opposite of what she's saying in order to make Halsey look like she's the Devil incarnate or the second coming of Hitler. She even takes some things Halsey was [i]SUPPOSED[/i] to be doing and tries to use it to make her seem evil, like deleting/erasing Kalmiya and Ackerson's AI Araquiel. Kalmiya was destroyed in accordance with protocol to keep her from falling into Covenant hands along with all of the data within CASTLE Base, and while Araquiel was killed in self-defense, he would have been deleted and erased to begin with anyway, because [i]all[/i] data, from AIs to chicken-noodle soup recipes, was required to be purged before the Covenant could access it. Yet Travissty uses the destruction of both Kalmiya and Araquiel as some sort of justification for calling, and acting like, Halsey is some sort of cold-blooded murder cackling madly as she does it. Your use of the flash-clones is a faulty example, as that was [i][b]NEVER[/b][/i] something Halsey did on her own or tried to sneak through. That was something that had been cleared and authorized from at the very [i]least[/i] when Halsey had agreed to accept ONI's proposal of running the project (they're the ones who came up with the whole thing, remember, Halsey never had any plans for a Spartan Project or making super-soldiers until ONI came along and suggested it), though I think it far more likely (from the way it was talked about in TFoR and all media before Glasslands) that the flash-clones were something that ONI themselves had come up with. In any case, the flash-clones were never some dirty secret, they were a fully authorized and approved aspect of the Spartan Program. And honestly, if Travissty wants to claim that Parangosky never knew about the clones and that they were some secret, then man are ONI stupid, even the Spartan IIs knew about their clones, and it's not something that'd be able to be kept secret to begin with anyway. Using ONI assets to flash-clone and then replace 75 kids is not something you can hide when you're running what was probably the most important project ONI had overseen or undertaken in years...and they were closely watching everything the whole time, it was their biggest investment of time and money ever until the Infinity. The whole flash-clone thing is one the many facts that Travissty chose to completely ignore.

Post continued... [quote]How could two species, that fought along with one another for a few mere months, vs decades of constant bloodshed trust each other? Sure, there a few honorable ones like the Arbiter (well, Thel Vadam now I guess), but remember most of them joined the humans because they had a common enemy who was going to kill all sentient life in the galaxy! Even in Halo 3, A LOT of the elites still referred Master Chief as "Demon" whereas only a few called him Spartan. Most of the Elites don't hate humans (if I remember correctly from Glasslands), they're just afraid the humans will now try betraying them to ensure their safety, which is VERY sensible because even during their co operation against Truth, there was still tension (like the Shipmaster telling Hood he'd have glassed all of Earth if it weren't for the Arbiter), meaning in a sense, Truth and the Loyalist covenant held their alliance *very loosely* together. Now that enemy is gone/extremely weakened, it's sensible most Elites, and most humans, are wary of each other. Also, the Elites slaughter billions of humans and destroyed countless wars, I don't the odds are very likely that many humans are fond of them. The Sangheli are being smart, especially since there are people like Osman and Parangosky and other ONI pricks around (who don't want peace, in my opinion, but power......what better way for humanity to progress if the Sangheli are weakened/fighting each other?)[/quote] The Elites never did hate or mistrust humans, the only reason for fighting for them was that the Prophets told them to, and even [i]then[/i] they deeply questioned the orders, even though they did carry them out, as they did not match what the Elites had seen all throughout the war with their own eyes. They respected humanity for a multitude of reasons, they were fierce fighters with seeming unending resolve and courage as well as honorable warriors and worthy foes to fight. They even went so far as to question why they should be annihilated and declared heretics when other races that had put up much less of a fight and were lesser in their eyes than the humans had shown themselves to be [i]were[/i] allowed into the Covenant without issue. Go read Conversations from the Universe, it came with Halo 2, it's something that covers the Elites' views on humanity in fairly good detail. And no, the reason for joining with/allowing humans to join them was because they had found out everything the Prophets told them was a lie, it was starting to make amends as it were. They had absolutely nothing to gain from working together with the UNSC or humanity. The human military was almost completely and totally wiped out by that point and the Covenant technologies are far superior than human ones to begin with, it usually took about 3 ships, or about three shots from a single ship, in order for the UNSC to even kill one Covenant ship. Letting humanity join the fight gains them absolutely nothing. Just because a Spartan is called "demon" does not mean anything ill-willed, that the Elite's name for the Spartans, just like humanity calls them Elites, even though their name is really "Sangheili", nothing negative is meant by it, it's just a name. And the only Elite in Halo 3 I've heard calling us "demon" is the one on the final level on Earth just before you go to the Ark, when you're going to the crashed Flood ship. And listen to how he's saying it, it's not hostile or anything, he's treating it as Chief's name/title and nothing more, contrast that with how the Brutes say "demon" when you call you that, it's filled with rage and hatred and how much they loathe you. And as for the thing with R'tas and Hood, the only reason that R'tas glassed Africa at all was because of the one Flood ship, and look how quickly it was spreading, the Flood had taken over Voi almost completely moments after they had crashed and they were spreading quickly enough that a great deal of the area round Voi and the ruins of New Mombasa had to be glassed in order to contain it. The Flood is something deadly serious, humanity had absolutely nothing to do with R'tas original intentions of glassing all of Earth, he would have approached the situation the same if it had been a world held by the Covenant that the Flood had fled to. Out of all the characters in Halo, except for perhaps Chief, R'tas is the one who's had the most experience with the Flood and understands [i]just[/i] how much of a threat they can be. Humanity being the ones living there had absolutely nothing to do with it, and if it really were about humanity, he wouldn't have listened to the Arbiter at all and just went ahead and glassed as much of Earth as he possibly could. Issues are non-existent for the Elites as far as the majority are concerned, humans are the only ones who'd be having any kind of trouble with Elites, but as Halo 3's ending shows, the leaders of the UNSC and UEG are mature enough to not want to try and fight the Elites anymore or deliberately try to piss them off, they want peace and no more war with the Elites ever again. All of the Elite characters in Glasslands are looking for humanity's destruction except the Arbiter, any others who talk about humanity at all only do it in terms of loathing or mention how they'd like to go back to killing them all off again. Even those supposedly on the Arbiter's side, like Jul's Kaidon, want to go to war with humans again the only difference between them and the Elites like Jul is that they don't think they're ready to start up a genocidal campaign again [i]right now[/i]. Sensibility has nothing at all to do with it, as even in Travissty's nonsense the UEG and UNSC want to pursue peace (possibly the [i]ONE[/i] thing she really got right), so because the actual and official government and military arm of humanity want peace and are actively pursuing it...it makes perfect sense to want kill off all of humanity and fight them again, just because there are some people being irrational about it? Last I checked, just because the KKK operated in the South after the Civil War doesn't mean it makes sense to arrest or accuse every single white southerner of being a criminal. Wanting to kill off the whole because of a minority of radicals on either side is not logical or sensible. If someone's arm or leg were infected and needed to be removed you wouldn't kill the whole person, you'd just amputate the infected arm or leg. [quote]Humanity wants peace with the Sangheli? I thought Kilo 5's job was to make sure the Elites keep on fighting each other so they'll ignore humans? Also, about ONI section II propaganda not showing the full extent of the war, that does NOT apply to the military leaders like Hood, Parangosky (and now Osman I guess since she's the new head of ONI). These are the people the Elites fear, and destroying all of human kind/drastically weakening them through slaughter will give humanity's greatest military leaders little chance of destroying the Sangheli.[/quote] Parangosky is acting out of revenge, spite, and pure selfish interest. She doesn't care what the UNSC or UEG wants, only what gets her what she wants. She is, in fact, actively subverting the goals of the government through Kilo-5. Parangosky wants war, war, war, genocide, and more war. The actual government and the military (IE, UEG and UNSC) that ONI is [i]supposed[/i] to be answerable to want peace with all of the former Covenant that will accept. ONI/Kilo-5 does not in any way, shape, or form indicate what humanity as a whole and the government wants, which is peace. And so what if there are people in the military who know how bad the war actually was? Hood and the government want peace...if they don't like it they have no legal alternative but to suck it up and move on. The leaders are perfectly willing to put aside whatever they personally feel about the Elites aside for the greater good of mankind. At the memorial Hood pretty much says he can never really forgive the Elites for the war, but nevertheless he thanks the Arbiter for everything the Elites have done since then and shakes his hand and treats him with all the respect he would another human leader.

I do a lot of drugs but i haven't done any to make me completely forget that the elites did not like humanity or show any signs of admiration until the end of the war. I have never heard an elite use the term "Demon" in a good way nor do i think they meant such when they were saying it in a bad way. They hated the spartans and they saw humanity as a "infection" which they wanted to destroy. Karen didn't randomly make that part up, I know for a fact "demons" have been brought up in nearly every novel and you see it the most in halo 2 with the IWHBYD skull. The elites always saw the humans as insects and that indeed has been brought up too, the nonsense about them being an infection among the stars is new. All of that major questioning in regards to humans came later in the war. The conflict did not start off with the elites liking humans from the get go. lol, so here in this argument you admit covenant technology is indeed Superior to the UNSC's yet when any topic about reach comes up you say " It didn't make any sense for the military might of the humans to fall so fast". You even brought up the 3 to one ration in which the covenant ships out numbered the humans by three [b]and[/b] had several waves incoming. That is quite a contradiction. [quote] Voro strained to isolate the human word for demons from their objectionable speech Spartans. [b]It heated his blood to a boil.[/b][/quote] [quote] They would take no chances with the human demons, these "Spartans."[/quote] [quote] It seemed as if theAutumn was infested with chrome-armored demons spouting plasma fire[/quote] Even though the last quote is during CE everything else is afterwards. The spartans are called demons due to chief destroying a holy ring. I don't understand why you thing a religious group would specifically call something a "demon" and that wouldn't have any negativity behind it [b]whatsoever[/b]. If you seriously have only heard the word "demon" pop up once then i can honestly say you haven't played halo 2 on legendary enough. you can hear the elites reference you as "demon" very well often even more so with the IWHBYD skull. I clearly remember the line "Where were you demon when we burned your planet?" Yep, that has absolutely no negativity behind it at all coma. Coma, are you kidding me? So you are telling me after fighting a race for 30 years you wouldn't burn their homeworld the first chance you got? clearly that was the logic behind it because it made no sense to glass [b]an entire planet[/b] just because one ship landed, in an area with heavy military presence that could contain it. He even said [b]If it weren't for the arbiter's counsel I would have glassed [u]your entire planet[/u][/b] Yea, so Rtas would have glass the entire planet including other Continents where the flood obviously didn't reach "just to help us out". Lord hood even questions Rta's motives behind the glassing because (even though he didn't glass the entire continent) he must have glassed a larger area than needed, even for the flood. Rt'as wouldn't Ignore the arbiter coma and you know that. Despite that Rtas was still going to glass the entire planet when you just stated there isn't any logic behind doing more than needed. I don't recall ONI ever supporting peace or that even been implied as to the organization wanting such. When i think ONI i think of technology which is all they have been going after postwar which they in turn use on the elites.

Part 3... [quote]You DO know that the San Shyuum piggybacked the elites when it came to technological warfare and even poliitics. Although most Elites were good warriors, it was the prophets making the big calls, and this could have weakened their ability to "fly solo" because of the centuries of piggy backing and leeching they were doing. Even if a few intelligent ones like Thel Vadam want to negotiate a treaty, there's A LOT of bloodthirsty warriors disagreeing with him, preferring brute force over cunning and political strategy (I remember reading that the prophets did most of this for the elites in the novels). And you're completely (!) ignoring Ghosts of Onyx. Remember when that shipmaster and his fleet discovered that the prophets lied to them, they STILL wanted to kill the humans and form "a new and better covenant". Also, you completely ignored a few KEY moments in The Cole Protocol (another novel). The Prophet of Truth sent the Arbiter and a few of his top men to be slaughtered by a group of Brutes, unbeknownst to the naive Elites. The Prophet of Truth even told the Brutes, and some jackals in on the plan to kill a few of the most prominent elites, that one day they would succeed the Elites (who would be disbanded from the covenant). However, the Elites' physical skill allows them to beat the Brutes, and before his death, one of the Chieftains tells Thel Vdam that the Prophets will one day betray the elites (something along the lines of that). Thel doesn't believe him, and even approaches the Prophet of Truth who denies it. After all, in the beginning of the Halo3 mission the Ark, an Elite remarks (even with a few human forces on their side) "they outnumber us three to one". Humanity gave the elites numbers AND proof that, even without the elites, they could destroy Halo rings, which was, in my opinion, the best way to foil Truth's plans and make a heavy hit to the Loyalist Covenant's key belief that they live and breathe (that a Great Journey will be initiated when the Halo rings are fired).[/quote] That's not at all true, actually, go read, or re-read Contact Harvest. The Elites were spacefaring all under their own power and had their own colonies when they first encountered the Prophets and fought their war with them. And once they started innovating off the Forerunner relics around their planet fought the Prophets to a complete and total standstill. The only reason the Prophets brought the Elites to the point of being desperate/willing enough to form a treat which became the basis of the Covenant was because of the Keyship. And you're also mistaken about leadership of the Covenant, did you forget about the Elites on the Council, you know...the group running the whole Covenant? And aside from positions as Hierarch or on the Council, most of the Prophets were priests or some form of cleric and focused on the whole religious aspect of the Covenant, and not mention 99.9% of them lived on High Charity and they never really had a large population. The Prophets completely lacked the numbers to run the civilian side of the Covenant alone, the Elites filled every single position of power that was not filled by a Prophet. So no, the Elites are not "just warriors" or "only knowing war"...especially since the Covenant hasn't even [i]had[/i] anything close to a war for centuries until they encountered humanity, and the population of the Elites is far too large for all of them to be fighters anyway. The Elites are just versatile or knowledgeable as a society as humans or the Forerunners ever were. If you're talking about Xytan Jar Wattinree, I just have one thing to say, look at all the timestamps in GoO. The whole book is taking place concurrently with Halo 2 and immediately after it ends, in other words a matter of hours since the Great Schism began. Even [i]with[/i] FTL and near instant communications, word of the Prophet's lies about humanity and the truth about Forerunners and the Halos is still going to take time to spread...all the Elites know then and now is that the Prophets have betrayed them and broken the Covenant by ordering the Brutes to exterminate them all. You are also ill-informed on Cole Protocol, I think you should really consider going back and reading all of the books again. Regret was the one who sent Thel and the expedition of Elites out to deal with the Jackals trading with the Rubble because he thought that said Jackals were heretics. He didn't know about Truth's scheme to use the modified weapons to track down human worlds. And the reason the Brutes destroyed Thel's ship is because they wanted to take all of the credit for the mission, it had nothing to do with Truth or his many schemes. It's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. The fleet at the Ark was just R'tas small fleet of ships sent out after the Flood ship that had broken quarantine around High Charity and managed to escape, you do know those weren't the only ships the Elites had right? The full amount of ships they had would have been able to fairly effortlessly squash Truth and the Loyalists all on their own. And also, the fleet at the Ark was fighting all on its own, the Forward Unto Dawn (the only human presence there) went down to the surface of the Ark to fight the ground-forces of Truth. The Shadow of Intent and the Separatist fleet dealt with Truth's all on their own.

Part 4 [quote]One example I'd like to point out for this is that Jul has no real resentment for the humans (until they kill his wife). but remarks it as impossible to live in peace with someone who was an enemy for so long. Of course, there IS a chance that humanity would not bother the Elites, but WHAT IF? After the war, the elites are in much smaller numbers (many died during the Great Schism, and the war against the humans) and have POOR control over technology (it was stated multiple times in the books the prophets did this for the Elites). They also lacked, or had very little, Forerunner Engineers to make advanced armor and guns. This, along with the fact that the UNSC diverted more money to science and technology over guns after the war (A LOT can be accomplished with a bigger budget and bunch of top notch scientists on YEARS of forerunner excavated data and even covenant technology), meant that the Elites would be definitely weaker in terms of technology, which accounts for why "humans can blow craters through their worlds". All of the extra money that would have been spent on tanks and even propaganda, etc. could be used to manufacture MANY prototypes devleloped over the course of the war that the UNSC (then) didn't have the funding to attend to. Another explanation I've heard over at the Halo waypoint forum is that only the humans can access some, if not most, Forerunner technology (possibly because the Librarian indexed them with the ability to quickly rediscover the advanced science the Forerunners stripped the Ancient Humans of). Perhaps it was planned for humans to easily reaquire technological advancement after the covenant (who probably can't access a lot of it) dig up holes all over the planets leading to these artifacts.[/quote] I think you might also need to re-read Glasslands...that was Jul's whole reason for wanting to depose the Arbiter and join the Servants of Abiding Truth in order to try and take control of them...to get together an army and resources to kill off all the humans. That was his whole motivation from the beginning, to start another war with humans and to this time actually kill them all off. Obviously you read enough to retain Travissty's and 343idiocy's fallacious assumptions about Elite military might and technological capabilities, that's for sure. That's yet another reason why Glasslands sucks and isn't true at all to canon. The Elites have been running the whole Covenant Empire since its conception, and that includes overseeing the production of ships and weaponry. The Prophets may have been the ones inventing most of the [i]new[/i] technologies or improving old ones, but manufacturing and repairing what had already been invented and put into circulation was something the Elites have been continuing to do for millenia. Not to mention the sheer size and manpower it would take to maintain and protect the whole Covenant Empire. The number of ships needed for that is nearly beyond count, the Covenant spanned pretty much all of the Orion Arm of our galaxy, and you do know that the Covenant has loads of colonies throughout that whole expanse as well as factories and mining operations and countless other civilian and military activities. The Elites would not be in any kind of state like they are in Trashlands. [quote]Even Lord Hood, probably one of the few humans who respected the Elites, and Thel Vadam, who respected humans, said that he has no plans of real friendly co-operative peace, just living side by side, and not shooting on another to death, so a neutral relationship (this was mentioned in glasslands). Both of these people knew finding true respect from all members of both parties was not very likely. Also, it isn't the Elites that are shown with no dignity, in the Thursday War, I just read the section where Kilo 5 helps the monks and Lord Hood helps the Arbiter on purpose so they can make the Elites kill each other more (destroying their numbers and keeping them distracted). This, in my opinion, takes away some evil from the Elites, because Hood, the man "who shook Thel's hand and showed his immense respect" was lying to the Arbiter's face. This DOES give the Storm sect SOME justification in killing humans, who are manipulating them, and even being slightly evil. To your comment saying some Elites called Master Chief Reclaimer, while others called him demon, I remember reading somewhere that the younger Elites addressed Chief as Spartan or Reclaimer, while the older ones (the Majors in the red armor) and higher class ones, aside from a few like the Arbiter, called him demon. Obviously, the older ones would have preferred a temporary truce, because it's slightly hard for them to trust a species they've been in constant conflict for nearly three decades (and they're justified, people like Paranagosky want the Elites to weaken and die off, a la creation of Kilo 5).[/quote] Hood doesn't know a thing about what Maggot Parangosky or the Office of Naval Incompetence are doing behind his and the UEG's backs, which is yet more ill-researched, poorly executed, and common-sense lacking nonsense of the gruesome twosome's parts. Hood is helping the Arbiter because he supports him and his goals and the two species (human and Elites) already have a quasi-alliance with each other, Parangosky and all of her evil minions are the ones trying to cause trouble and get the Elites to fight so they can come in and wipe them out when it's all over. Hood isn't trying to backstab or betray the Elites at all, all he knows is that the Arbiter is experiencing a rebellion on Sangheilios and offers to come help him out because he's a potential ally, and because the two share very similar goals of peace, working together when possible, and eventually down the road a potential alliance.

I never bothered to read any of the post-war novels, but Osman's appearance in the newest Spartan Ops still felt cliché and out-of-place. The ominous lighting, her snarky bad-guy mannerisms, just everything about her. Why does she want Halsey dead in the first place? TEH PLAHT DEMANZ IT.

[quote] Why does she want Halsey dead in the first place? [/quote] Because she's a shitty character and is jealous that Halsey is a much better one than her. Why else do you think that the entirety of Glasslands was devoted to bashing Halsey?

Maybe it has something to do with her failed SPARTAN-II augmentations, and she's butthurt because of it and thinks Halsey is responsible. But that's a stretch.

More like it has to do with her being a failed character. She sucked so much shit that it bent reality and caused other peoples personalities to do a 180 and suddenly start hating Halsey.