The problem with Destiny and the reason everyone in pvp seems unhappy is because Bungie refuses to take a stance on casual and competitive game modes. Destiny 2 is designed to be an extremely easy fps game that has a lot of cheesy and non skilled ways to play and win games. This is extremely good for a casual fps game. The problem is Bungie uses things like SBMM and Outlier Protection for casual game modes resulting in everyone of every skill level playing close competitive games in a non competitive environment. That’s not fun. The other problem is the ACTUAL competitive game mode, Bungie doesn’t disable or restrict loadouts or the cheesy build crafting so the competitive game mode is also filled with non competitive things. The pvp in Destiny would be fine if Bungie made all of the casual playlist an actual for fun casual playlist with nothing on the line, doesn’t matter if you win or lose, easy match making with crazy abilities and guns and dumb modifiers. Then made the competitive playlist a hyper skilled restricted competitive experience that was focus around skilled loadouts and hard match making where you play for wins and rank. That way everyone would be happy. BUT what we have now is a mix of both. A game that pretends to be a casual game but is super sweaty and a game that pretends to be competitive game but is super casual… so what happens? No one wins. Until Bungie fixes this problem the pvp will always be bad.

The problem is because the whiner’s egos are writing checks that their body can’t cash.

Judging from my vast forum experience… absolutely not… I feel if hand cannons one shot to the body they would probably be ok…. Would still claim they require skill though haha

Yes, just go play something like Titanfall 2 and you will experience love for the first time in your life, and joy.

Simply put, no. Expanded version, no, not in a 'power fantasy' game where you have a potentially unlimited number of variations and combinations for players to use, because something new will always come along that leads to an unfair advantage for one section of the playerbase. Games like Halo and Doom did it by having everyone start each match on a level playing field and having weapons and boost obtainable only by random drops. Extraction shooters do something similar, as do 'traditional' shooters like CoD or Battlefield. Hero shooters like Apex Legends, Valorant and Overwatch do it by locking weapons and abilities to each character type and providing 'hard counters' in other character types. PvP has never worked, and will never work in a game like Destiny unless you disable all abilities in that mode and constrain all weapons to a handful of available options... but if you did, people would hate it more than they already do

naked fist fights! who's with me??? LOL

If people play an ability based game with wacky weapons and then complain about both, they can never be happy. And they shouldn’t be. Nothing should be done to appease these people. They should be told that’s how the game is. Catering to minority groups of players is how the game has declined so much.

You could send them in there with just sticks and within ten minutes a post will pop up saying the other team has better sticks and should be nerfed 😂

No, each one wants a different custom tailored sandbox and instead of adapting and rolling with the meta , they cry on X,Reddit and here untill Bungie nerfs what they don't like Then you would think they would be satisfied and pleased with themselves, lol , no they just pick something else to cry about

I've always been a PvP player in other games but I find every aspect of Destiny PvP to be utter garbage. I'm not even sure loadouts would break my top ten of things that needed to change for me to enjoy it. Let's see: * The netcode * The maps - way too cluttered * The gametypes * How it has been and is maintained. I would argue that PvP died on day one in this game - because of how mics werent supported. It created an enviroment where people just played with their own personal goals in mind - and in a loot based shooter it's rarely about actually winning games. * I know that the silly geese in this forum hate the term "forced" so let's just use "strongly encouraged" instead. I hate how people are "strongly encouraged" to enter PvP for the sake of finishing a questline or completing a goal when the same people don't want to be there. They themselves have a terrible time and it ruins matches for those who actually want to PvP. Loot, challenges, titles etc should never encourage someone to cross gametypes. Slap different skins on gear and armor and have titles and whatnot dedicated to just PvP - but dont mix the two. * I would complain about SBMM, team balancing etc but these are all outcomes of the population, which in turn is the outcome of how Bungie seemingly forgot how to create good PvP. It's quite remarkable seeing how they used to be at the forefront of console PvP.