To start I have to say that Destiny is a really, really pretty game. It looks for all intents and purposes fantastic. However the environment/world so far has been boring, extremely boring.
Environment
The maps and environments the players play in are seriously sterile and lifeless, the player can’t interact with it on any level whatsoever and nothing changes no matter how much time has passed or what happens. The best example of this is where you can see the Fallen and the Hive duking it out in the areas of the Cosmodrone. Sure they are fighting each other, in the same places however they do nothing else but give us something to shoot. You don’t see which side wins, there aren’t corpses littered around, you don’t see them disposing (or absorbing) their dead and because no one ever wins there are no effects on the environment.
Imagine the Fallen cleansing the area of the hive presence when they win while observing the toxic effect the hive previously had on the environment retreat as the Fallen become more present in the tunnels and set up a serious base of operations. Only to have the hive emerge from right underneath them in a surprise assault which defeats/displaces the fallen and watch the environment undergo another shift where the barnacles and green miasma of the Hive spread into buildings and the general area. Instead we have a few units that run out and shoot each other over and over again where we could have a wonderful, interesting and intricate cycle.
Also there is legitimately nothing to find in the environment except a chest or ghost here or there (and spinmetal) players should be able to scavenge things from dead guardians (not PCs), old supply caches, supplies guarded by enemies etc. There is none of that to be found here which makes adventuring/ killing never ending re-spawned AI’s unrewarding. Scavenging in this setting makes sense and for gameplay it fits in for exchange and glimmer purposes.
[spoiler]The use of only one unchanging map “for everything” should not occur. Ever. I really do hope we come back to earth and unlock even more areas to enjoy so we have some variety but for now we have been in the same map for many separate missions (and raid of sorts) going in slightly different directions each time. All of these missions should have really been clumped together namely finding the ship and the warp drive and finding the hive then activating the array. This would help improve player interest in going back to these areas.[/spoiler]
Lifeless
The NPC’s in this game are glorified vending machines or seemingly do nothing at all. They have exceedingly little substance with only a fragment of personality given in their dialogue, I have no reason to care about the various groups that have vendors in the game or their views as their missions consist of two sentences in free mode that involve collecting or killing things that have no impact on their dialogue, actions or environment. What you do is folded out of existence never to be heard again until you repeat that same mission [spoiler]and considering we just came back from the dead this is the perfect opportunity to allow the player to ask questions or inform us of these things while interacting with characters we will be seeing often.[/spoiler]
Your enemies have no purpose whatsoever. They stand around, looking around places for no reason and then defend them to the death like they are somehow important (none of them actually run away or escape). Killing on sight is ok for some but the Fallen are a hit and run race that are supposed to utilise agility to fight yet they stand out in the open most of the time and are not agile in any sense of the word (they can also scale walls really well but I have yet to see that actually implemented in their AI).
All in all these reasons kill any intention of going back to explore because you already know exactly what it will be like and know that it hasn't changed since you last saw it.
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I would be fine with it if at least they showed what or why the animals are gone
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I went through the game today and they have begun to make changes... There was a bird flying over the steppe, and they have added dragonflies flying around the water's edge!
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It would be nice to see some of these changes (especially with NPCs), but I think you've failed to realize this is an MMO world, even though it's not technically an MMO game, so the world has to stay the same for the most part. I didn't get into exploring right away, but then I decided to actually start looking around, and I mean around every rock and corner, in/around structures and over cliffs. To the point I didn't let high level enemies stop me. I found a lot of loot and ghost, but I also had fun jumping/running around places nobody really dared to go; found hidden places I missed and even found a bugged wall right in the open but nobody could see from below. The only issue I had was invisible walls stopping me from getting to places. Not to mention that public events and those random occasions when stronger enemies come pouring out of their spawns seemingly without end (not sure what to call it), exist to address some of your issues. Maybe you've experienced these things in the 5-6 times you went and it's just not enough for you to see the same places again. Then the only thing I can say is, since it's just a beta hopefully it might get better by launch or months after.
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Have any of you every played a real MMORPG enemy patrols and spawns ate always the same. That's how it is supposed to be. Take world of warcraft for example, a certain rare will spawn once ever 37 hours in place of a usual mob and will follow one of three patrolls each time(I'm referencing the time lost protodrake). Mobs are static unless there is a special story quest(vale of eternal blossoms) that will change it and even so only changes it for that unrepeatable quest. Every time you participate in a dungeon or raid out will be the same. Bosses are predictable and that's what makes them winnable. If any npc mob had an ai that was unpredictable like a player then no one could beat it as most ai will have 300% more hp than a player and deals 4 million damage. What you guys want is a story behind every npc that will make that specific npc act vastly different from those next to him. In the anime sword art online (yes, I am an Otaku) the main character said that bosses, although people died fighting them, were less scary than players because players are unpredictable. You can learn how one individual fights but their friend is completely different making it impossible to beat them. Ai has to be static because they are there to be farmed. The events change things up slightly by adding some sort of world boss that everyone can participate and profit from like the celestial in the timeless isle in WOW. If they had what many of you described (about hive and fallen pushing territories and whatnot) that to would be predictable because it would all have to run on a single algorithm that determines what happens when and would inevitably create a never ending cycle. What all of you want is what happens in the last arc of the SAO series, that is currently only a book, and that is the ability to copy souls into a game and tell them their job. That technology will only come after someone figures out how to transfer human souls into a video game. If that will ever be possible we will have to wait for the real traveler to come to Earth. So in other words, what you ate hoping for is so advanced that it won't happen for at least another 200 years.
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Some points I agree on, but for the most part, you have to realize that Destiny Beta is just that: a beta. We're only seeing a small part of what Bungie is going to offer come full release, so new maps will be available then. The small part of Russia we're getting now was just to test how the game runs and give us small insight on how the full game might workout. You make good points, but overall, the game is just a beta and a small section of the full game.
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Honestly, I'm okay with how the game is now, but you have a point. It would be nice to see some context on some things. Perhaps when you talk an Alliance leader they'll introduce their cause and what they do, and the player can go for reputation with what ever group they like most. Right now, the only reason you would do something to gain rep for a group is because of their items they sell, but it would be nice to know what they are all about. Grimoire Cards may help us out with that, but IDT everyone's going to go crazy for them (I am, I love lore). As for the enemies in the world, I'm sure it's that way for balance reasons. What if some reason you have to hunt down the Hive (They drop a certain loot you want, or you have a Bounty that requires you to kill them) and the Fallen have irradiated the Hive. Having things like that would be cool for scripted events in certain missions, but because of the nature of the game, it's not really an easy thing to balance. The enemies in the overworld are there as walking bags of XP and, occasionally, as obstacles. I think the maps are great, really. Plenty of cool, beautiful areas to explore. Secret areas with enemies too high for your level (I find it really fun going through those areas). Sure, there isn't much in the overworld to do other than explore, but then again, what do you expect? You either do missions with objectives (which do give you scenarios such as a Fallen invasion or a complete lock down of an area by one of the enemy races) or you can go to "Explore" to... Well, um.. Explore.
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I have a question. How many times have you been through the mission map at this point? 20? 40? 50? Now compare this to how many times you might be on the same map if this was the entire game and not the Beta. I'm pretty sure that you're tired of the same old place already because that's all we have. Expect the full game to be far more diverse and expansive than we have right now. They (Bungie) have literally only given us one teeny tiny part of a Russian wasteland. That's hardly a clear image of what to expect from the full release, come September. I do get what you're saying, but to me, Destiny has just as much interactivity as any other game out there FPS or otherwise. They DO try to mix it up occasionally, especially with the randomly positioned chests, the high level mob areas (that one hit kill us right now) and the random events that drop in from time to time. What you're asking for is possibly already in place to go live in the full game.
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Unfortunately, as much as I'm enjoying the BETA, I have to agree.
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Hmm.... You make a good point. What I would really like to see is more stuff that can explode. Cause, I've noticed little gas tanks all over Old Russia, but when you shoot them, it does nothing. In reality, if you shot a laser into that tank (that went as fast as a bullet), the tank would explode. And another thing.... In PvP matches, there are boxes that when shot explode, but I don't see that on Old Russia anywhere. ANYWHERE. Plus, if they added this, the player would have to be more cautioned and would have to keep an eye out. The tanks/boxes would be deadly to the player, but also to any enemy's
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The mobs need to spawn more randomly and be different assortments of enemies. The same mobs, with mostly the same enemy types with endlessly spawn in the same areas. The "get 9000 XP without dying" challenge was sort of a joke. I'd assume this will change in the final game, and I really hope this game doesn't turn into another GTA online, with the same missions being farmed for challenges, money, and vanguard points. It could get really boring, really quick if that's the case.
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There needs to be a fourth option in the poll. "This is a beta and is only a small percentage of the end game content"
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Изменено (Large Gorilla ): 7/27/2014 3:40:43 AMThought this up while writing on my own forum post. The Tower is more dead than the Undercity. Bam.
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You're right. Every time you go back to the cosmodrome, it's the same way it was when you first got there. What I really found annoying was the way Fallen ships slipped in the same two places over and over. They weren't even trying to do anything or work towards some goal. Their ships just comes in, drops off the same units as last time and you kill them... Again.
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Изменено (Large Gorilla ): 7/27/2014 1:51:45 AMIt does seem rather lifeless... you get the occasional out of game bird flying across the sky and thats about it. Other then that its enemies and real world physics whatsoever. The AI feels exactly the same as Halo AI but doesn't have that strong personality that the Covenant had either. The simplicity of it all makes it feel repetitive and unoriginal.
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Изменено (Timerider): 7/26/2014 3:59:34 PMI don't feel that strongly about it; I don't think it's [i]that[/i] bad but I do agree with a lot of what you said. Seeing the same enemies respawn in the same location over and over again feels very artificial, especially when it happens just because you've turned around. There are barely any unique environmental animations for enemies. They mostly just strafe around. The simplicity of the AI stands out. The Fallen have six limbs, but they rarely utilize them; they don't lean on cover or climb rocks, they just jump over them. They could, for example, slow their momentum when running behind a pillar by grabbing the edge with one of those extra arms. Though I understand that would be difficult and costly to implement. Edit: Great, now I do feel more strongly about it.
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You guys must be playing a different game than me. Today my friend and I witnessed a war. A massive showing of how powerful the hive and fallen can be. 5 captains and 3 knights plus what seemed like hundreds of grunts fighting for control of this tiny section of the map.
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so many people judging the tiny beta as if its the full game.
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The fallen are scavengers, they stand around broken planes because they are looking for scrap to help build up their race. The hive appear in breeding grounds because, while on the earth they want to get their population up. Breeding grounds are worth defending in their opinion. However, the world does need a bit more colour and life as I really liked the idea of fallen climbing walls but not experienced it in gameplay yet
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The way the open world of Destiny works reminds me of DC Universe Online, though in DCUO, they're much more enemies throughout each sector of Gotham and Metropolis. But this is the beta, we are locked out from the other areas of the map, and the first 'level' of these types of MMOs are usually the dullest. I'm eager to see more of Venus and the Moon assuming those are also worlds we will be able to explore, not just a multiplayer map. And of course, everyother world we will get to visit and explore.
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I agree with the points you bring up, but I also accept the fact it's not possible with the limitations of the old gen hardware. I still find the game highly enjoyable, I'm looking forward to the main story.
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Obviously I don't work for Bungie, so I can't speak for them, but I can definitely speak for myself -- and honestly, whether people agree or disagree with you, this is a superbly written post that lays out your thoughts exceptionally well. This should be a template for others. Just wanted to give you kudos for your efforts to let Bungie know your opinion; great job man.
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Personally I think the tower does a good job of making the world seem more life-like. The NPC do talk a bit when you are near them. Ships fly in and out the shipyard. NPC move and are in distinct areas of the tower suggesting that they are unique in some form or fashion. Earth on the other hand does seem lifeless, but I believe theres a very good reason for that feeling of a mysterious, lifeless, war-torn enviornment. I mean the Fallen and Hive are on earth along with some other species or enemy that dwell at in darkest areas of the map that can't be defeated in the beta. Also with the Fallen, as AI they are intelligent to a reasonable degree. When attacked or when locked on by a sniper reticle they do take cover and they will gang up on a unsuspecting guardian. Overall, we all need to keep in mind that this is a BETA. We are given a slice of whats to come in the game. A slice. We don't know whats going to be in the full game, what activites we will be able to do additionally over what we already have seen, we don't know how conversations will go through out the story missions and how much of that story will be conveyed through the game through NPC's and Grimore Cards. I don't see Destiny as a game with lifeless enivornments. Even though we just have a beta to go on, there is plenty to see thats contrary to what you may believe, for example, Public events. The sky suddenly getting dark, a ship appearing out of slipspace, with other ships in its wake, A ship dropping enemies and a spider tank in a certain area, players coming from all around to get a piece of the action...its hardly a lifeless enviornment. There plenty to explore now and there will be even more so in the full game. Heck if you explore to far, or to deep, you encounter enemies you have no hope of defeating, enemies that are up to something that you and anyone else who discovers them are curious about. I'm keeping a open mind overall. A slice of the game is hardly a full representation of it, especially considering how the game is initially designed. Its not a game that a person will beat the campaign, rank up all the way in multiplayer and unlock everything and just drop it, its a game that will change and that people will continue to play, its a game thats going to have a long lifespan. Can't wait to see whats instore in the full game.
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My biggest problem is the overwhelming reuse of assets. I swear the structures in this game have a more monotonous layout than the dungeons in Oblivion.
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We are playing one tiny area of a much larger world idiot.
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Unfortunately I believe that while that is an amazing idea, Bungie simply can't put it into this game. At this stage the most I see them being able to do is add more environment that maybe moves around, allowed the AI to interact with other AI more and actually able to KILL the other AI etc... Other then that, what you are talking about would take more time in development stage. Great idea though for any add-ons or next game.