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4/10/2020 3:15:08 AM
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[quote]On console, autos have more use now than hand cannons have in the past year.
For those of you that said hand cannons were "OP" based on usage, auto rifles are even more so now. Your logic. Not mine.[/quote]
All ARs are not Hardlight. Based on usage stats Hardlight is OP, but everyone already knows that. HCs still our number ARs in the top 10 primary usage stats. You have to look at the whole picture instead of just shrinking it down to wha you want to show.
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Изменено (Bore): 4/11/2020 10:34:03 PMUsage doesn’t equal strength...
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[quote]Usage doesn’t equal strength...[/quote] Not directly, but it is an indicator of how broken or easy to succeed with because in the history of multiplayer games players most often abuse the most broken component or strategy. Hardlight has gotten the most kills in Trials every week because it is over powered and that makes it easier to get kills with it. It’s really simple.
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Being a successful weapon does not indicate or even equate it to being OP, as you put it. Yet in typical ironic and stupid fashion, once a weapon become popular, good or successful it is immediately stated to be OP, which brings the abused Nerf hammer. I’ve out dulled hard light successfully many times with my Valakadyn (so), recluse, a hand cannon etc etc and have been 4shot head shot by the mad weapon. I’ve had insidious connections that have made the weapon insta-kill me. The only thing that needs a balance aside from the Destiny communities reaction, would be that the ricochet rounds do perhaps 20% less damage. Other than that the weapon is very effective at zoning, dueling, long distance pot shots or lucky reflected shots etc etc etc. Am I biased...yeah, well very much F yeah I am he he he. I’ve loved it since D1 when it first came out even though it really was pretty bad. I’d say both that and Thorn with reason being 2fold.
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[quote]Being a successful weapon does not indicate or even equate it to being OP, as you put it. Yet in typical ironic and stupid fashion, once a weapon become popular, good or successful it is immediately stated to be OP, which brings the abused Nerf hammer. I’ve out dulled hard light successfully many times with my Valakadyn (so), recluse, a hand cannon etc etc and have been 4shot head shot by the mad weapon. I’ve had insidious connections that have made the weapon insta-kill me. The only thing that needs a balance aside from the Destiny communities reaction, would be that the ricochet rounds do perhaps 20% less damage. Other than that the weapon is very effective at zoning, dueling, long distance pot shots or lucky reflected shots etc etc etc. Am I biased...yeah, well very much F yeah I am he he he. I’ve loved it since D1 when it first came out even though it really was pretty bad. I’d say both that and Thorn with reason being 2fold.[/quote] I never said usage equates OP, but it does indicate it. Unless the sandbox is completely balanced players will always pick the weapon that’s the easiest and most powerful to win with. Usage is also a much better indicator of a weapons power than anecdotal evidence like “I beat hard light with X”. It doesn’t really matter when right now HL has 1.9m kills on Trials this weekend and the next highest primary has 600k. More people are using HL to beat more players than just your personal games. The amount of usage it’s seeing just illustrates how overpowered it is, and evidence of its power has been proven over and over since the beginning of the season.
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Изменено (bLooM_pHaZe): 4/11/2020 11:55:09 PM[quote][quote]Being a successful weapon does not indicate or even equate it to being OP, as you put it. Yet in typical ironic and stupid fashion, once a weapon become popular, good or successful it is immediately stated to be OP, which brings the abused Nerf hammer. I’ve out dulled hard light successfully many times with my Valakadyn (so), recluse, a hand cannon etc etc and have been 4shot head shot by the mad weapon. I’ve had insidious connections that have made the weapon insta-kill me. The only thing that needs a balance aside from the Destiny communities reaction, would be that the ricochet rounds do perhaps 20% less damage. Other than that the weapon is very effective at zoning, dueling, long distance pot shots or lucky reflected shots etc etc etc. Am I biased...yeah, well very much F yeah I am he he he. I’ve loved it since D1 when it first came out even though it really was pretty bad. I’d say both that and Thorn with reason being 2fold.[/quote] **[I never said usage equates OP, but it does indicate it. Unless the sandbox is completely balanced players will always pick the weapon that’s the easiest and most powerful to win with. ]** Usage is also a much better indicator of a weapons power than anecdotal evidence like “I beat hard light with X”. It doesn’t really matter when right now HL has 1.9m kills on Trials this weekend and the next highest primary has 600k. More people are using HL to beat more players than just your personal games. **[The amount of usage it’s seeing just illustrates how overpowered it is, ]**and evidence of its power has been proven over and over since the beginning of the season.[/quote] _______________ _______________ _______________ Hold on there, hold the phone...! You’ve contradicted yourself a few times there. I’d agree of course that a weapon being popular does generally mean said weapon is in fact good even strong yet, not Overpowered. Thats all I’m saying really. So I’d agree and respectfully disagree there. Towards the end you again equate OP-ness to popularity or overall use. Yes it’s good I agree because I’m not trying to disagree or be a troll of course for the sake of it, or even start some idiotic debate over how long tadpoles dally in a pond. Merely that a weapons popularity does not mean its overpowered...good yes. Peace out brother. 👍
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[quote][quote][quote]Being a successful weapon does not indicate or even equate it to being OP, as you put it. Yet in typical ironic and stupid fashion, once a weapon become popular, good or successful it is immediately stated to be OP, which brings the abused Nerf hammer. I’ve out dulled hard light successfully many times with my Valakadyn (so), recluse, a hand cannon etc etc and have been 4shot head shot by the mad weapon. I’ve had insidious connections that have made the weapon insta-kill me. The only thing that needs a balance aside from the Destiny communities reaction, would be that the ricochet rounds do perhaps 20% less damage. Other than that the weapon is very effective at zoning, dueling, long distance pot shots or lucky reflected shots etc etc etc. Am I biased...yeah, well very much F yeah I am he he he. I’ve loved it since D1 when it first came out even though it really was pretty bad. I’d say both that and Thorn with reason being 2fold.[/quote] **[I never said usage equates OP, but it does indicate it. Unless the sandbox is completely balanced players will always pick the weapon that’s the easiest and most powerful to win with. ]** Usage is also a much better indicator of a weapons power than anecdotal evidence like “I beat hard light with X”. It doesn’t really matter when right now HL has 1.9m kills on Trials this weekend and the next highest primary has 600k. More people are using HL to beat more players than just your personal games. **[The amount of usage it’s seeing just illustrates how overpowered it is, ]**and evidence of its power has been proven over and over since the beginning of the season.[/quote] _______________ _______________ _______________ Hold on there, hold the phone...! You’ve contradicted yourself a few times there. I’d agree of course that a weapon being popular does generally mean said weapon is in fact good even strong yet, not Overpowered. Thats all I’m saying really. So I’d agree and respectfully disagree there. Towards the end you again equate OP-ness to popularity or overall use. Yes it’s good I agree because I’m not trying to disagree or be a troll of course for the sake of it, or even start some idiotic debate over how long tadpoles dally in a pond. Merely that a weapons popularity does not mean its overpowered...good yes. Peace out brother. 👍[/quote] I said “indicates” and “illustrates”, not a contradiction. When a weapon is OP that is reflected by the amount of usage it has. The amount of usage HL gets compared to all other weapons is the part illustrating how OP it is. It’s like the usage level of bugged Prometheus Lens. Ignoring the reality that players of multiplayer games will always use the most powerful tool available to try and be semantically correct doesn’t help the health of the game.
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It’s close enough a contradiction, which is why I illuminated those aspects as a such. You’re basically saying that indirectly. So you may as well being saying just that. Tadpoles swim around...
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[quote]It’s close enough a contradiction, which is why I illuminated those aspects as a such. You’re basically saying that indirectly. So you may as well being saying just that. Tadpoles swim around...[/quote] Except that isn’t the case. What I actually said is quotes right there.
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Actually it is.
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[quote]Actually it is.[/quote] Except that it isn’t.
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Изменено (bLooM_pHaZe): 4/12/2020 12:52:00 AM[quote][quote]Actually it is.[/quote] Except that it isn’t.[/quote] Yet it is...nonetheless you’re indirectly stating the same thing. Just because VW beatle and a Porche are variants on cars...cars they are nonetheless.
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[quote][quote][quote]Actually it is.[/quote] Except that it isn’t.[/quote] Yet it is...nonetheless you’re indirectly stating the same thing. Just because VW beatle and a Porche are variants on cars...cars they are nonetheless.[/quote] It isn’t because neither word means equates. Those words both mean car but they don’t mean truck.
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Well I’m going to have to agree to disagree👍
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[quote]Well I’m going to have to agree to disagree👍[/quote] Well it’s okay for you to disagree with reality, that doesn’t change reality.
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Hardlight is not the only 600 rpm auto. All of them are better than handcannons right now.
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[quote]Hardlight is not the only 600 rpm auto. All of them are better than handcannons right now.[/quote] 🤣 Hand cannons are better than 600 rpm auto rifles. You just can’t stand still and fire them out of cover. ARs require sustained headshots to get a low TTK that matches what a hand cannon can get while being fired from cover.
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[quote][quote]Hardlight is not the only 600 rpm auto. All of them are better than handcannons right now.[/quote] 🤣 Hand cannons are better than 600 rpm auto rifles. You just can’t stand still and fire them out of cover. ARs require sustained headshots to get a low TTK that matches what a hand cannon can get while being fired from cover.[/quote] 600 rpm autos have better ttks than any hand cannon... while being easier to use and more forgiving. [spoiler]Both autos and handcannons can be shot from behind cover. [/spoiler]
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[quote][quote][quote]Hardlight is not the only 600 rpm auto. All of them are better than handcannons right now.[/quote] 🤣 Hand cannons are better than 600 rpm auto rifles. You just can’t stand still and fire them out of cover. ARs require sustained headshots to get a low TTK that matches what a hand cannon can get while being fired from cover.[/quote] 600 rpm autos have better ttks than any hand cannon... while being easier to use and more forgiving. [spoiler]Both autos and handcannons can be shot from behind cover. [/spoiler][/quote] When you move behind cover with an AR you lose your low TTK. You can move in and out of cover with a HC and keep the same TTK while RAISING the TTK of a 600 RPM auto you’re dueling. Hardlight is better because it has no range drop off and can bounce bullets for double damage. That’s just Hardlight. The rest are fine. I’m not going to agree to delusions.
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[quote] When you move behind cover with an AR you lose your low TTK. You can move in and out of cover with a HC and keep the same TTK while RAISING the TTK of a 600 RPM auto you’re dueling. Hardlight is better because it has no range drop off and can bounce bullets for double damage. That’s just Hardlight. The rest are fine. I’m not going to agree to delusions.[/quote] Cover shooting drops your ttk no matter what weapon you’re using. An auto in the hands of someone with thumbs does just fine peak shooting. That’s why Hardlight, Summoner and Suros are the most used and highest performing trials weapons. [spoiler] About 16% of kinetic weapons used in trials are autos and about 20% are handcannons. Kinetic slot is ruled by special wepaons(revoker) About 55% of energy weapons used in trials are autos and about 6% are handcannons. By your logic this alone is proof that autos are better than handcannons. [/spoiler]
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[quote][quote] When you move behind cover with an AR you lose your low TTK. You can move in and out of cover with a HC and keep the same TTK while RAISING the TTK of a 600 RPM auto you’re dueling. Hardlight is better because it has no range drop off and can bounce bullets for double damage. That’s just Hardlight. The rest are fine. I’m not going to agree to delusions.[/quote] Cover shooting drops your ttk no matter what weapon you’re using. An auto in the hands of someone with thumbs does just fine peak shooting. That’s why Hardlight, Summoner and Suros are the most used and highest performing trials weapons. About 16% of kinetic weapons used in trials are autos and about 20% are handcannons. Kinetic slot is ruled by special wepaons(revoker) About 55% of energy weapons used in trials are autos and about 6% are handcannons. By your logic this alone is proof that autos are better than handcannons. [/quote] Cover shooting doesn’t drop the TTK of HC because they are burst weapons not auto weapons. If you break line of sight against an AR and repeek you can kill them with the same TTK as if they were standing still not shooting you. If they break line if sight and repeek they lose their lowered TTK and lose the dual. There has been so much content made showing HC users beating AR users in duels illustrating exactly that since the beginning of the season trying to argue it at this point. The TOP 10 primaries in Trials has 3 ARs, 6 HCs, and a sidearm. My logic is that usage indicates power level not that it ranks weapons by how powerful they are. Suros isn’t a 600RPM AR, and Summoner is the only 600RPM that can roll with celerity, which if you aren’t aware is NUTS in trials because it’s elimination. What other 600RPM ARS are out performing HCs in Trials?
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Изменено (Bore): 4/11/2020 11:51:14 PM[quote] Cover shooting doesn’t drop the TTK of HC because they are burst weapons not auto weapons. If you break line of sight against an AR and repeek you can kill them with the same TTK as if they were standing still not shooting you. If they break line if sight and repeek they lose their lowered TTK and lose the dual.[/quote] You can still out gun a handcannon who is peak shooting. Don’t stand still next time. [quote] There has been so much content made showing HC users beating AR users in duels illustrating exactly that since the beginning of the season trying to argue it at this point.[/quote] Autos are better than handcannons. [quote] The TOP 10 primaries in Trials has 3 ARs, 6 HCs, and a sidearm.[/quote] And those autos are used more than all the handcannons... [quote] My logic is that usage indicates power level not that it ranks weapons by how powerful they are. [/quote] And both in kills and usage, autos are winning. They are also winning in the usage to kill ratio. [quote] Suros isn’t a 600RPM AR, and Summoner is the only 600RPM that can roll with celerity, which if you aren’t aware is NUTS in trials because it’s elimination.[/quote] Spinning up suros is quite literally a 600+ rpm auto. Feel free to double check. Summoner isn’t used because of celerity. The preferred god rolls people are using don’t include it. [quote] What other 600RPM ARS are out performing HCs in Trials?[/quote] All three that I listed are the most used weapons and are all 600 rpm. Hardlight is not any more OP than other Autos.
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[quote][quote] Cover shooting doesn’t drop the TTK of HC because they are burst weapons not auto weapons. If you break line of sight against an AR and repeek you can kill them with the same TTK as if they were standing still not shooting you. If they break line if sight and repeek they lose their lowered TTK and lose the dual.[/quote] You can still out gun a handcannon who is peak shooting. Don’t stand still next time. [quote] There has been so much content made showing HC users beating AR users in duels illustrating exactly that since the beginning of the season trying to argue it at this point.[/quote] Autos are better than handcannons. [quote] The TOP 10 primaries in Trials has 3 ARs, 6 HCs, and a sidearm.[/quote] And those autos are used more than all the handcannons... [quote] My logic is that usage indicates power level not that it ranks weapons by how powerful they are. [/quote] And both in kills and usage, autos are winning. They are also winning in the usage to kill ratio. [quote] Suros isn’t a 600RPM AR, and Summoner is the only 600RPM that can roll with celerity, which if you aren’t aware is NUTS in trials because it’s elimination.[/quote] Spinning up suros is quite literally a 600+ rpm auto. Feel free to double check. Summoner isn’t used because of celerity. The preferred god rolls people are using don’t include it. [quote] What other 600RPM ARS are out performing HCs in Trials?[/quote] All three that I listed are the most used weapons and are all 600 rpm. Hardlight is not any more OP than other Autos.[/quote] 1) I can’t be bothered to explain to you how cover shooting works I guess. Here’s a hint: you have to keep your reticle on the head of your target AND keep the trigger held down so all the shots you fire hit them in the head to get the low TTK. 2) ARs are defiantly not better than hand cannons. They are viable now. That’s it. 3) So what? Yes HARD LIGHT is broken. It makes up the difference in usage on its own. That’s how broken it is. 4) So what? It Indicates power level, not ranks them by power level. 5) Suros starts at 600RPM and then SPINS UP. Summoner is being used by good players for Celerity. They aren’t running any other legendary 600RPM AR for its god roll. Some players just use what they have. 6) The question is what OTHER 600 RPM autos are used more than HCs? You can only name two HL (broken perk exotic with a special sized mag) and Summoner (can roll celerity). What OTHER 600RPM autos are used more than HCs? Remember you said ALL of them are better than HCs.
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All 600 rpm autos are good, very good. Hardlight isn’t the only 600 rpm that’s better than handcannons. Suros is a 600 rpm and yes, no shit it shoots faster, it’s an exotic. It does 600 rpm damage. Summoner’s god roll doesn’t include celerity. It’s a good perk when it’s active, but it’s not active long enough to be a viable choice over other perks. It’s not why people use it. Ask any decent player with thumbs what’s better, an auto or a handcannon. 9/10 will say auto.
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[quote]All 600 rpm autos are good, very good. Hardlight isn’t the only 600 rpm that’s better than handcannons. Suros is a 600 rpm and yes, no shit it shoots faster, it’s an exotic. It does 600 rpm damage. Summoner’s god roll doesn’t include celerity. It’s a good perk when it’s active, but it’s not active long enough to be a viable choice over other perks. It’s not why people use it. Ask any decent player with thumbs what’s better, an auto or a handcannon. 9/10 will say auto.[/quote] Do CammyCakes, Cool Guy, Drewsky, Etc etc etc have thumbs? They think HCs are better.
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[quote] Do CammyCakes, Cool Guy, Drewsky, Etc etc etc have thumbs? They think HCs are better.[/quote] They don’t think that... there’s a reason why autos have the most kills and usage. The most used handcannon(spare rations) has a lower kill percentage than usage percentage. Hardlight, summoner and Suros all have more kills compared to usage.
